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Thread: "A half-hearted Christian is worse than a backslider in a bar'- God

  1. #1

    "A half-hearted Christian is worse than a backslider in a bar'- God

    "11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

    12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.

    13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."
    Jeremiah 2:13

    God told his people thru the prophet Jeremiah, "You have rejected me, the fountain of living waters (out of your belly shall flow rivers of living waters), meaning the spirit of God that is to indwell us...always fresh, always pure.

    Now the sad part. Not only did gods people go back from an intimacy of walking in the spirit, they have also hewn out religious cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water. There is no flow in a cistern. The water is stagnant. In a broken cistern, it is even worse, for whatever water is put in disappears for it leaks out.

    Saints, have we substituted something else for the abiding spirit of Christ in us? Have we made doctrine, denominationalism, religiousity, a humanistic self-reliant approach to God our spiritual base rather than simply abiding in Jesus himself, daily dependant on Him for life, for power, for victory, for wisdom? Have we forgotten God owns us? Have we stopped full dependence on the Father to walk this life through us? Sadly, for most, the answer is yes.

    Instead of fresh living water that the world looks on with envy, for many in the world are truly thirsty and looking for answers to life and what it all means, we pull out our little pail of old, stale water to woo them to truth and they look at us like "You'r kidding right?"

    The world understand our poverty of spirit, (and yes, thank God there are indeed a few great exceptions!) but sadly, for most we do not yet see our water is stagnant stuff that sets none free, yet we are content because by gosh, we have WATER! (well, we did have a while ago!)

    What is interesting in this discourse is that God said His people committed two seperate sins. One was to reject him and go backwards. The second was to substitute something that supposedly looked like God's hand but was not. The second sin in God's eyes is worse than the first. Hs word backs up this assertion.

    In Jeremiah 3, , God says Israel backslid, and Judah turned back to him, but only feintedly, or halfheartedly. God said backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. (Jer.3:11) To walk with the Lord with our heart not in it is treachery in God's eyes, conniving, trying to get the full reward but not paying the cost, having our cake and eating it too.

    In Revelation 3, God addresses Laodecia and says this as to their lukewarmness. I would that you were hot or cold, just don't be lukewarm. Listen. God would rather us be back in the bars than to be halfhearted towards Him. Whatt?? Hey, I did not say it, God did.

    And why is this? Because a child backslidden in a bar knows he is wrong and in danger and can do something about it. But how hard it is for a religious person to perceive or acknowledge his need! Religious pride is the hardest of all sins to repent of, for the blindness prevents ever seeing the need for repentance. Sometimes, as in the case of Saul/Paul, one have to be blinded in order to see. If that is what it takes, God blind us.

    In the parable of the prodigal son, who was the fatted calf and the party given to, the "faithful" half-hearted son who stayed to make a good show to the father, or the rebel son who messed up big time but knew it and returned? We all know the answer.

    God wants 100% or 0%. He deserves our all, for He gave us His all. Does He not deserve the same in return?


    Bruce

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceG View Post
    "11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

    12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.

    13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."
    Jeremiah 2:13

    God told his people thru the prophet Jeremiah, "You have rejected me, the fountain of living waters (out of your belly shall flow rivers of living waters), meaning the spirit of God that is to indwell us...always fresh, always pure.

    Now the sad part. Not only did gods people go back from an intimacy of walking in the spirit, they have also hewn out religious cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water. There is no flow in a cistern. The water is stagnant. In a broken cistern, it is even worse, for whatever water is put in disappears for it leaks out.

    Saints, have we substituted something else for the abiding spirit of Christ in us? Have we made doctrine, denominationalism, religiousity, a humanistic self-reliant approach to God our spiritual base rather than simply abiding in Jesus himself, daily dependant on Him for life, for power, for victory, for wisdom? Have we forgotten God owns us? Have we stopped full dependence on the Father to walk this life through us? Sadly, for most, the answer is yes.

    Instead of fresh living water that the world looks on with envy, for many in the world are truly thirsty and looking for answers to life and what it all means, we pull out our little pail of old, stale water to woo them to truth and they look at us like "You'r kidding right?"

    The world understand our poverty of spirit, (and yes, thank God there are indeed a few great exceptions!) but sadly, for most we do not yet see our water is stagnant stuff that sets none free, yet we are content because by gosh, we have WATER! (well, we did have a while ago!)

    What is interesting in this discourse is that God said His people committed two seperate sins. One was to reject him and go backwards. The second was to substitute something that supposedly looked like God's hand but was not. The second sin in God's eyes is worse than the first. Hs word backs up this assertion.

    In Jeremiah 3, , God says Israel backslid, and Judah turned back to him, but only feintedly, or halfheartedly. God said backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. (Jer.3:11) To walk with the Lord with our heart not in it is treachery in God's eyes, conniving, trying to get the full reward but not paying the cost, having our cake and eating it too.

    In Revelation 3, God addresses Laodecia and says this as to their lukewarmness. I would that you were hot or cold, just don't be lukewarm. Listen. God would rather us be back in the bars than to be halfhearted towards Him. Whatt?? Hey, I did not say it, God did.

    And why is this? Because a child backslidden in a bar knows he is wrong and in danger and can do something about it. But how hard it is for a religious person to perceive or acknowledge his need! Religious pride is the hardest of all sins to repent of, for the blindness prevents ever seeing the need for repentance. Sometimes, as in the case of Saul/Paul, one have to be blinded in order to see. If that is what it takes, God blind us.

    In the parable of the prodigal son, who was the fatted calf and the party given to, the "faithful" half-hearted son who stayed to make a good show to the father, or the rebel son who messed up big time but knew it and returned? We all know the answer.

    God wants 100% or 0%. He deserves our all, for He gave us His all. Does He not deserve the same in return?


    Bruce
    Hi!!!Bruce greetings;
    I salute you for your thread and I know it is all according to the scripture.I'll add Jer.3:25 We lie down in our shame,and our confusion coverth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God,
    we and our fathers,from our youth even unto this day,and have not obeyed the VOICE of the Lord our God.
    Heb.3:7-8 Wherefore ( as the Holy Ghost saith,To day if ye shall hear his VOICE,
    v.8)Harden not your hearts,as in the provocation,in the day of temptation in the wilderness.
    Matt.17:5 While he yet spake,behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold a VOICE out of the cloud which said,This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
    Rev.1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass,as if they were burned in a furnace; and his VOICE as the sound of many waters.
    In parallel of what you said about the word of Jeremiah,John 7:38 He that believeth on me,as the scripture hath said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    v.39) ( but this spake he of the Spirit,which they that believe on him shall receive:for the Holy Ghost as not yet given;because tha Jesus was not yet glorified.)
    Amos 8:11-12 Behold the days come,saith the Lord God,that I shall send famine in the land,not a famine of bread,nor a thirst for water,but of hearing the words of the Lord.
    v.12) And they shall wander from ses to sea,and from north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord,and shall not find it.
    Roman 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee,even in thy mouth,and in thy heart:that is,the word of faith,which we preach.
    Hope this help,thank you and many blessing.
    in love of Christ./RT.

  3. #3
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    BruceG View Post
    [COLOR=#ff0000]In Revelation 3, God addresses Laodecia and says this as to their lukewarmness. I would that you were hot or cold, just don't be lukewarm. Listen. God would rather us be back in the bars than to be halfhearted towards Him. Whatt?? Hey, I did not say it, God did.
    No..God never said this. He never ever says He would rather us be back in bars..

    This really bothers me saying God said this this when in fact He never ever says the word, bars. I know what you mean but saying God said this when bars didn't even exist back then ..it really rubs me the wrong way to say God said that. Why not actually quote what scriptures say? Then you can truly say, God said that.

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceG View Post
    "11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

    12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.

    13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."
    Jeremiah 2:13

    God told his people thru the prophet Jeremiah, "You have rejected me, the fountain of living waters (out of your belly shall flow rivers of living waters), meaning the spirit of God that is to indwell us...always fresh, always pure.

    Now the sad part. Not only did gods people go back from an intimacy of walking in the spirit, they have also hewn out religious cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water. There is no flow in a cistern. The water is stagnant. In a broken cistern, it is even worse, for whatever water is put in disappears for it leaks out.

    Saints, have we substituted something else for the abiding spirit of Christ in us? Have we made doctrine, denominationalism, religiousity, a humanistic self-reliant approach to God our spiritual base rather than simply abiding in Jesus himself, daily dependant on Him for life, for power, for victory, for wisdom? Have we forgotten God owns us? Have we stopped full dependence on the Father to walk this life through us? Sadly, for most, the answer is yes.

    Instead of fresh living water that the world looks on with envy, for many in the world are truly thirsty and looking for answers to life and what it all means, we pull out our little pail of old, stale water to woo them to truth and they look at us like "You'r kidding right?"

    The world understand our poverty of spirit, (and yes, thank God there are indeed a few great exceptions!) but sadly, for most we do not yet see our water is stagnant stuff that sets none free, yet we are content because by gosh, we have WATER! (well, we did have a while ago!)

    What is interesting in this discourse is that God said His people committed two seperate sins. One was to reject him and go backwards. The second was to substitute something that supposedly looked like God's hand but was not. The second sin in God's eyes is worse than the first. Hs word backs up this assertion.

    In Jeremiah 3, , God says Israel backslid, and Judah turned back to him, but only feintedly, or halfheartedly. God said backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. (Jer.3:11) To walk with the Lord with our heart not in it is treachery in God's eyes, conniving, trying to get the full reward but not paying the cost, having our cake and eating it too.

    In Revelation 3, God addresses Laodecia and says this as to their lukewarmness. I would that you were hot or cold, just don't be lukewarm. Listen. God would rather us be back in the bars than to be halfhearted towards Him. Whatt?? Hey, I did not say it, God did.

    And why is this? Because a child backslidden in a bar knows he is wrong and in danger and can do something about it. But how hard it is for a religious person to perceive or acknowledge his need! Religious pride is the hardest of all sins to repent of, for the blindness prevents ever seeing the need for repentance. Sometimes, as in the case of Saul/Paul, one have to be blinded in order to see. If that is what it takes, God blind us.

    In the parable of the prodigal son, who was the fatted calf and the party given to, the "faithful" half-hearted son who stayed to make a good show to the father, or the rebel son who messed up big time but knew it and returned? We all know the answer.

    God wants 100% or 0%. He deserves our all, for He gave us His all. Does He not deserve the same in return?


    Bruce

    does entering a 'bar' make one become backslidden?

    I saw the title of your thread.....and was wondering..

    If I step into an establishment maybe to visit a relative or say hi... yet don't 'drink' or become 'drunk'.. visit and leave..

    does that make me a 'backslider'?

    BTW... I don't drink or get drunk like I used to.. He set me free from that...

    but when I did do those things.. He had compassion and Mercy on me.. and He tells me to do the Same with others that are 'trapped' in bondage...

    do you know how many 'lost' people are in a bar? or establishment?

    Did you know Jesus ate and conversed with people that 'hung out ' drinking establishments.. whether it was a building or 'house'....

    He talked and preached to them...

    He wasn't worried about 'becoming unclean' or 'backslidden' because He entered a place where 'sinners' were...

    it was the Religous Pharisees that were always worried about that..

    lol...

    its the 'sinners' He was after.. Sent after the Lost sheep of the House of Isreal...

    I've found that in my Years as a Born AGain Christian..

    that people who are not 'religiousized'... are more open to the Good News of Jesus Christ.. versus somebody sitting in a pew, justifed by its denominational title and doctrine, those who want to have their ears tickled by some teacher/preacher/ set in their ways... heart heardened, and ears closed and eyes shut...

    it is True.. those that are 'regliousized'.. set in their ways... wanting their ears tickled about what they want to hear... those who are justified by their denominational or sect title and doctine.........are in more Danger.. and harder to reach.. than the person who sits daily in an establishment. drinking everything away... someobody who has not been 'proselyzed' into a certain sect or title. or label..


    those religious people.. set in their ways.. I often see on a daily basis.. and they are the ones who set themselves up better than others.. whispering about the person who goes into the bar and drinks, or the person who has gone thru a rough divorce... condemning these as they are blind to their own sin.. I see it on a daily basis... and I tell the LORD>..

    now I know what you saw and Heard... Its about the "heart'' and not titles and lablels...

    Jesus said these were stiff necked.. and always resisting the Holy Ghost...

    this is why the Religious Pharisees of His Day.. has such a hard time with Jesus..

    yet the Publicans , tax collectors, prostitues, the 'sinners'.... heard Him and Believed on Him....

    God Looks on the Heart.. and from there He will 'judge'..

    He 'knows' whats on your Heart and where or 'who' your Trust and Faith Resides in...

    when you replace that Faith and Trust In Jesus Christ.... with diverse sect titles and labels.. and teaching and preaching that will tickle your ears... setting these 'first' priority.. and leaving your First Love, Jesus Christ....

    then you Truly are in Danger....
    He that hath ears let him hear..
    Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
    ------------------------------------------------
    Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
    ------------------------------------------------
    The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
    Jeremiah 31:3

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    Define "half-hearted", what does that look like in practice?

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    What first came to mind here to halfhearted in practice, not the prodigal son parable, for example would be my 'friends' on facebook that on Sunday they are going to church and the other days' posts they are LM##O in about every comment or post....

    Just my between shop vac emptying and no sleep

    Not talking about religious 'rules' but it seems a shame that maybe the churches' they attend aren't teaching biblically.... I hear so much "that times have changed"....

    That's all I have time to throw in.....
    9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    PRAYERS FOR MIEKE AND CHARLES


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    No..God never said this. He never ever says He would rather us be back in bars..

    This really bothers me saying God said this this when in fact He never ever says the word, bars. I know what you mean but saying God said this when bars didn't even exist back then ..it really rubs me the wrong way to say God said that. Why not actually quote what scriptures say? Then you can truly say, God said that.

    God bless
    I apologize if it bothers you. I was trying to make a point. God hates half heartedness. It mocks His gift and it is like we are doing just enough to slide into Heaven but no more. I gave several examples to back up my contention. Here is our problem though. Many do not see being lukewarm as really bad. "Oh, yeah, I know I could be better, but at least I am not as bad as...." We are worse for we know to do good, to serve with all our hearts, minds soul and strength and when we do not, we are without excuse. Those backslidden or those in the world at least are aware of their problem and have a chance to repent. Thise who have convinced themselves that things are not so bad have a much more difficult path to repentance, for they do not see it is required by them at all.

    God has made it plain. Either make the tree good or make it evil. We cannot serve both God and mammon. A double minded man is unstable in all His ways. Love the Lord with all your heart. Lukewarm is not ok with God, nor pleasing to Him. In truth it hurts and disgusts Him.

    It is to those who "sell all that they have", complete aboandonment to the love of God, who get the treasure. God is longsuffering with us, but the day will come that those in the valley of decision....trying to decide who is their God...Him or themselves....will have to make a decision. And those who try to put it off, trying to have the best of both worlds will find that their choice was already made long ago.

    I am not espousing men go back to bars, or any type of sin. Far from it. I am saying that Jesus came not only to pay the price for our sins, but also to set us free from them. If we are content with just safety, and not holiness, pleasing God with our lives, we will find in the end that we were our own "Lord" serving ourselves rather than God. We do not own us...He does. The wonderful thing is that it is when we submit all to Him that we find He fully takes responsibility for our lives. it truly is a pearl of great price and worth any price we are asked to pay.

    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceG View Post
    I apologize if it bothers you. I was trying to make a point. God hates half heartedness. It mocks His gift and it is like we are doing just enough to slide into Heaven but no more. I gave several examples to back up my contention. Here is our problem though. Many do not see being lukewarm as really bad. "Oh, yeah, I know I could be better, but at least I am not as bad as...." We are worse for we know to do good, to serve with all our hearts, minds soul and strength and when we do not, we are without excuse. Those backslidden or those in the world at least are aware of their problem and have a chance to repent. Thise who have convinced themselves that things are not so bad have a much more difficult path to repentance, for they do not see it is required by them at all.

    God has made it plain. Either make the tree good or make it evil. We cannot serve both God and mammon. A double minded man is unstable in all His ways. Love the Lord with all your heart. Lukewarm is not ok with God, nor pleasing to Him. In truth it hurts and disgusts Him.

    It is to those who "sell all that they have", complete aboandonment to the love of God, who get the treasure. God is longsuffering with us, but the day will come that those in the valley of decision....trying to decide who is their God...Him or themselves....will have to make a decision. And those who try to put it off, trying to have the best of both worlds will find that their choice was already made long ago.

    I am not espousing men go back to bars, or any type of sin. Far from it. I am saying that Jesus came not only to pay the price for our sins, but also to set us free from them. If we are content with just safety, and not holiness, pleasing God with our lives, we will find in the end that we were our own "Lord" serving ourselves rather than God. We do not own us...He does. The wonderful thing is that it is when we submit all to Him that we find He fully takes responsibility for our lives. it truly is a pearl of great price and worth any price we are asked to pay.

    Bruce
    I know..like I said, I know what you meant...it was the wording of it when God didn't actually say that. I just bristle when people say something God didn't say is all, as like many of us on here, we see His Words as Holy and not be changed around to make a point because it really is clear enough in scripture. It doesn't need to be changed around.

    Revelation 3:15-17 (New King James Version)

    15 I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.


    For me that is pretty graphic! And doesn't need to be added too.

    I would say this though..here is a warning for those that are lukewarm..this is clearly a rejection BY Christ of these types of people. I don't think in anyway, does He encourage them to be 'cold'...because of the other warnings of this in the bible were are pretty dire...these people will actually be judged harsher then those that never knew the truth.

    2 Peter 2
    20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to his own vomit, and, a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.


    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  9. #9
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    Have to commend your reply Bruce, very well written and so true.....Julie very well written as usual, excellent verses :thumbs up: Wish I had more time today and I know tomorrow won't be any better....subject matter is an excellent topic..
    9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    PRAYERS FOR MIEKE AND CHARLES


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    This passage is talking about utility, not "one or the other". Hot water is good for bathing, washing. Cold water is good for drinking and refreshing. Warm water is good for neither. He's not saying "I wish you'd be 100% for me or 100% against me". He's saying "I wish you would be usefull".

    KJV Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot

    what he said is what he said.

    now what is the rest of what he said?
    KJV Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    and what other scriptures concur with this one? 2 Thessalonians 2:11

    looking at the word Cold and Hot in the bible, just a few but feel free to look up more.
    Cold:
    KJV Matthew 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

    KJV Proverbs 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.

    KJV Proverbs 25:13 As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him: for he refresheth the soul of his masters.

    KJV Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

    Hot:
    KJV Exodus 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

    KJV Deuteronomy 9:19 For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure, wherewith the LORD was wroth against you to destroy you. But the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also.

    KJV Judges 6:39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.

    KJV Ezekiel 24:11 Then set it empty upon the coals thereof, that the brass of it may be hot, and may burn, and that the filthiness of it may be molten in it, that the scum of it may be consumed.

    KJV 1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;




    KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRJarvis View Post
    what he said is what he said.

    KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    You know what? Forget I even said anything. Previous post deleted. It ain't worth the effort.
    Last edited by HisLeast; Mar 16th 2010 at 02:34 PM.

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    I've noticed Bruce, That your conclusions are right on. I look foward to your future posts, most encouraging,

    Also Moonglow, I understand your zeal and it is admirable. so refreshing to see such wonderful fellowship.

    what is fellowship? Two fellows in the same ship.

    there is a black dog and a white dog in constant battle inside a person which one is going to overcome the other?

    The one we feed the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLM Lives View Post
    there is a black dog and a white dog in constant battle inside a person which one is going to overcome the other?

    The one we feed the most.
    This implies a two nature doctrine which is not biblical. Nature is the essence of a thing. When the spirit wars against the flesh or the mind serves the law and the flesh sin it is two parts in one nature waring against each other. You are you. What you feed you and allow into you, and what you choose to believe, decides whether or not you will overcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    No..God never said this. He never ever says He would rather us be back in bars..

    This really bothers me saying God said this this when in fact He never ever says the word, bars. I know what you mean but saying God said this when bars didn't even exist back then ..it really rubs me the wrong way to say God said that. Why not actually quote what scriptures say? Then you can truly say, God said that.

    God bless
    Since God was writing to the church at Laodecia, it would only make sense that someone needs to study what the springs at Laodecia were like and how that relates to what was said. Until that happens, we will continue to see this bit of scripture twisted beyond anything that the first century Christians in Laodecia would have recognized,.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Missionary View Post
    Since God was writing to the church at Laodecia, it would only make sense that someone needs to study what the springs at Laodecia were like and how that relates to what was said. Until that happens, we will continue to see this bit of scripture twisted beyond anything that the first century Christians in Laodecia would have recognized,.
    I heard a preacher some years back who said he went to the area of Laodecia. He explained that the waters of Laodecia were lukewarm because they came by aqueduct. Nearby Hierapolis had hot water and Colossae had cold. Both the hot and cold waters were drinkable and "useful". But, the lukewarm water of Laodecia was hard and barely drinkable. It was this uselessness that God was critizing.

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