tattoo's

[ThyWordIsTruth]

Your story reminds me of David Wilkerson. Although I don't agree with him theologically, but I have to respect him for the work he has done in the Lord.

David Wilkerson has led more hardcore street gangsters and people on the fringe to the Lord then anyone I know who has tattoos. And David Wilkerson looks nothing like them. He wears a suit, has normal hair, no tattoos, wears glasses, looks very decent....he doesn't behave like them, talk like them or walk like them.

From the mouth of the people whom he led to the Lord, the one thing that they saw in this man was love. He loved them despite all that they were.

And this is the principle that the Lord laid down for his disciples.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Why would we then be "of the world" when the Lord specifically told us we are "not of the world?" Nowhere did Jesus teach us to be like sinners or even look like sinners to reach the sinners. The Lord never became a tax collector to reach tax collectors. He never did what they did, he just loved them. And they came flocking to him en masse.

Similarly all we need to do is to love people. David Wilkerson is the best proof of this.

[Dravenhawk]

The money could be much better spent. Its not cheap to get the things engraved into one's skin.

One of my grandsons, his friends had been 'urging' him to 'get a tattoo' and he was 'chicken' if he didn't. After all, everybody is doing it, they said. He finally sneaked and paid the dough and got a small one on his upper back. Three weeks later, his car had problems and he had to have transportation to college classes and to work. His dad and mom didn't have the money right then and told him to call us, to see if we'd let him 'borrow' the couple of hundred dollars for repairs to his car. He had showed me the tattoo.

So, when he called I asked him, "How much did the tattoo cost?" He told me. I said, "That would have fixed your car." Long story made short, I did not give him the money. (Wouldn't you just love for me to be your Mamaw? LOL)

But we did loan him Bill's truck, which he had to drive till payday, and then, with that much coming out at one time...he and his girlfriend sat home and watched TV for a week or two. He didn't have the money to go anywhere.

I did not have to preach to him, but he learned a valuable lesson. He's told me since then, "I wish I hadn't paid out for the tattoo."

I said, "In spite of the fact that EVERYBODY is doing it?"

And he said, "Most of them, their parents hand out money to them."

He's 20 years old.

Cheers to you for being a good example Sombody rep this good woman.

Dravenhawk

[Slug1]

Your story reminds me of David Wilkerson. Although I don't agree with him theologically, but I have to respect him for the work he has done in the Lord.

David Wilkerson has led more hardcore street gangsters and people on the fringe to the Lord then anyone I know who has tattoos. And David Wilkerson looks nothing like them. He wears a suit, has normal hair, no tattoos, wears glasses, looks very decent....he doesn't behave like them, talk like them or walk like them.

From the mouth of the people whom he led to the Lord, the one thing that they saw in this man was love. He loved them despite all that they were.

And this is the principle that the Lord laid down for his disciples.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Why would we then be "of the world" when the Lord specifically told us we are "not of the world?" Nowhere did Jesus teach us to be like sinners or even look like sinners to reach the sinners. The Lord never became a tax collector to reach tax collectors. He never did what they did, he just loved them. And they came flocking to him en masse.

Similarly all we need to do is to love people. David Wilkerson is the best proof of this.

I'm not David Wilkerson so I'm not used the same way as DW. Next we'd have to wear his same style of clothes (which I probably can't afford) and eat the same food he does for the Lord to use me the same as He does DW. Is that what you're saying?

[Slug1]

“Why did you set the house on fire with the woman and her five children inside?”
“God led me to do it.”
“Did it not bother you at all when you heard the woman and her five children screaming as they were being burned alive?”
“No, not at all. And besides that, the next-door neighbor accepted Christ as a consequence. Therefore, I know it was the leading of the Lord.”

God has never told anyone to sin against Him and his neighbor by getting a tattoo, and God has never needed for anyone to sin in order to be an effective witness of the truth of the gospel. I am personally acquainted with a very well known ministry made up of bikers with tattoos. They make the false claim that they are leading people to Christ who would otherwise never come to Him, but the reality is that they are persuading gullible people to believe that they can be Christians and continue to live in their sinful lifestyles.

During the years that I served as the senior pastor of an inner city church, I met multitudes of people that most of the other churches in the community wanted nothing to do with, and I heard from them horror stories about how other pastors and Christians had treated them. I also heard, over the years, three of these people tell me about a man of God whom they had met—a man who encountered them in the darkest and most sinful time in lives and who manifested to them through his love and compassion the person of Christ. They had no idea, however, that this man was the senior pastor of the largest church in the city with eleven associate and assistant pastors working with him. This man did not have any tattoos, and he did not need to have any because he had a personal relationship with God that was so pure and so spotless that Christ brightly shined through his daily life. I had the pleasure of spending 90 minutes with this man, just the two of us, and it was perhaps the most sacred 90 minutes that I have ever experienced.

You actually believe a tattoo is sinful?

Murder is... so your analogy isn't gonna work.

Besides... if you read my posts... I don't speak with "gullible" people, I speak with ones that Christians have hurt, because of their tattoos which they said was sinful and made these people feel that God will not accept them.

I'd be careful with that false claims statement also... if they lead one to Christ, you are cursing their efforts for God.

Did this holy man instruct you in how to thwart God's efforts in using each and every servant of His, no matter what they look like?

90 whole minutes and you consider this perhaps your more sacred moments? He's just a man who has his problems between him and God... like me, and like you.

Experience the Holy Spirit come upon you for a second and you'll see how your 90 minutes can't even compare.

I guess any servant of God who does not meet your standard really aren't doing God's work... huh? What they say/do as God leads them is false in your eyes because they don't meet the Jemand standard of holiness (pure and spotless)?

A heart that God has worked in... since it's under skin that is tattooed, they won't provide you with a "blessed" moment as God shines through them but the bright light is now multicolored due to the tattoos?

Besides... spotless and pure? Come on... BLAMELESS before God, sure and how would we even know that? Pure and spotless? Only a man who looks with natural eyes would say such a thing. Let's not put man up on a pedestal and call a moment with them... sacred. Any man of God hearing you call a meeting with them, sacred... they'd correct you because a man of God is humble.

A sacred moment is reserved for Jesus.

[Slug1]

The money could be much better spent. Its not cheap to get the things engraved into one's skin.

One of my grandsons, his friends had been 'urging' him to 'get a tattoo' and he was 'chicken' if he didn't. After all, everybody is doing it, they said. He finally sneaked and paid the dough and got a small one on his upper back. Three weeks later, his car had problems and he had to have transportation to college classes and to work. His dad and mom didn't have the money right then and told him to call us, to see if we'd let him 'borrow' the couple of hundred dollars for repairs to his car. He had showed me the tattoo.

So, when he called I asked him, "How much did the tattoo cost?" He told me. I said, "That would have fixed your car." Long story made short, I did not give him the money. (Wouldn't you just love for me to be your Mamaw? LOL)

But we did loan him Bill's truck, which he had to drive till payday, and then, with that much coming out at one time...he and his girlfriend sat home and watched TV for a week or two. He didn't have the money to go anywhere.

I did not have to preach to him, but he learned a valuable lesson. He's told me since then, "I wish I hadn't paid out for the tattoo."

I said, "In spite of the fact that EVERYBODY is doing it?"

And he said, "Most of them, their parents hand out money to them."

He's 20 years old.

A valuable lesson Mamaw!!!

Ya know... when the Lord prompts me and it'll involve money the confirmation is usually a sudden aquiring of the money needed. I've even had people come up to me and tell me that the Lord had placed it upon them to give me money. I've learned from the many times that this has happened it's just one of the ways that the Lord confirms His will. No different with the tattoos, no different with a missions trip south of me, no different with a week we came up short $50 for a full gas tank to take me to pay day and a person handed me $50 and said words I've heard many times... the Lord has placed this upon my heart to give to you. My wife is now just learning to accept such blessings from God.

Back to the lesson... I spent a year saving my allowance (yes, it's our budgeting system) for a M4 wannabe rifle. Once I had the $1000 I was listening to Christian radio and they were having a fund drive. God convicted me as I was driving to the store and I turned around and drove home to donate $500 and then went into the backroom and cried as the Lord ministered while I prayed about how I denied myself things that I needed for myself and how He had led me to save all that money so He could help the radio station and now free me to go purchase stuff I did need, not want.

It was a lesson of needs vs wants and I got what I needed and God got what He needed as well for that radio station.

[Vhayes]

I have no tatoos and have no desire to ever get one. But I don't care if a brother or a sister has them head to toe. I have enough to take care of looking after my own life and walk with the Lord than to worry about what others are doing and how their walk is coming along. I figure if the Lord doesn't want them to have tatoos, He'll let them know. If He wants me to get one, He'll be sure to make that clear.

[Jemand]

Your story reminds me of David Wilkerson. Although I don't agree with him theologically, but I have to respect him for the work he has done in the Lord.

David Wilkerson has led more hardcore street gangsters and people on the fringe to the Lord then anyone I know who has tattoos. And David Wilkerson looks nothing like them. He wears a suit, has normal hair, no tattoos, wears glasses, looks very decent....he doesn't behave like them, talk like them or walk like them.

From the mouth of the people whom he led to the Lord, the one thing that they saw in this man was love. He loved them despite all that they were.

And this is the principle that the Lord laid down for his disciples.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Why would we then be "of the world" when the Lord specifically told us we are "not of the world?" Nowhere did Jesus teach us to be like sinners or even look like sinners to reach the sinners. The Lord never became a tax collector to reach tax collectors. He never did what they did, he just loved them. And they came flocking to him en masse.

Similarly all we need to do is to love people. David Wilkerson is the best proof of this.

Amen! In my pastoral experience, I learned that my love for my congregation was the most important thing that I had to give them. An excellent university and seminary education is important, but without a genuine, sacrificial love for the people, even the very finest education is as nothing. Sound theology and well-prepared sermons and Bible studies are important, but more than anything, my congregation wanted to see Christ in me, and not only in the pulpit and the classroom, but in my daily life.

My congregation was very diverse, but being in the inner city, the Church attracted some very lost people. One of them was a young biker named Johnny, a tattooed member of the Hell’s Angels gang. He did not come to any of our church services or Bible studies, but came to visit me in my office. In his first visit, he told me about something that had recently happened. He had returned to his motorbike where he had parked it and found it laying on its side. A man was standing by the bike, and he told Johnny that he had accidentally knocked it over and was waiting for him to return so that he could offer to pay for any damage to the bike. Johnny was infuriated, took out a knife, and cut open the man’s abdomen. I asked Johnny if the man died, and Johnny told me that he did not know and never thought about it. Johnny was a cold-blooded killer with no sign of a conscience. I shared the gospel with him, but he showed no response to it.

On a subsequent visit, he told me that his gang had run over a 14-year-old boy right in front of his house, and that the boy’s mother came out and watched her boy die in the street. Johnny was apprehended by the police and charged with negligent homicide and was out on bail awaiting the trial. He showed no concern at all for the boy or his mother, but was worried about being sent to prison.

Every several days or so, Johnny came to see me and tell me the latest news in his life. I listened compassionately, and Johnny seemed to find comfort talking to me. After several visits, however, he stopped coming. A month past and then Johnny walked into my office. He told me that he had just gotten out of jail on a different charge, and that he had not come to see me because he was in jail. He went on to tell me that while he was in jail, he had nightmares about being in hell, and he was afraid that hell was a real place and that he was headed there. Nonetheless, he was not ready to believe in the gospel.

A few weeks passed and I was in the last few minutes of preparing to leave on my church’s retreat when a friend brought a stranger into my office and told me that the man wanted to talk to me. My friend knew that we had to leave in a few minutes, and I was a little irritated by her bringing the man into my office, but I asked the man to sit down in the chair opposite my desk, and when my friend left the room and closed the door, the man began to speak. I very clearly recognized the man’s voice, but not at all his face. It was very obvious that the man knew me, but I had never seen him before—or so I thought. He thanked me for loving him in spite of the man that he was, and began telling me that he had been saved and that Christ had given him a new life. I put the pieces together in my mind and realized that the man in front of me was Johnny! He still had his tattoos, but I had not noticed them that day because his countenance was so radiating the love and forgiveness of Christ that I did not even recognize him. He had been genuinely saved, gone to court before a born-again judge, and with the judge’s help, had a new life in a new community. He came to see me to thank me and tell me what Christ had done for him.

In my street ministry, I prayed for God’s help in finding people who had serious needs that I could meet, and I then went about meeting the needs of those people. In some cases, all it took was 30 or 40 minutes for them to believe and accept Christ as their Lord and their Savior; in other cases, it took a chain of events over a period of days or weeks, but as the people saw that I truly loved them, their hearts were softened and they believed.

[Jemand]

You actually believe a tattoo is sinful?

No, a tattoo is not sinful, but defacing our bodies with tattoos is very sinful.

Besides... if you read my posts... I don't speak with "gullible" people, I speak with ones that Christians have hurt, because of their tattoos which they said was sinful and made these people feel that God will not accept them.

I have ministered to very many people with tattoos, and I know better that to tell them that getting tattoos is sinful—and every Christian that I have ministered with has known better than that. Once the people have gotten saved and have grown in Christ, they will not need anyone to tell them that defacing our bodies with tattoos is sinful.

Did this holy man instruct you in how to thwart God's efforts in using each and every servant of His, no matter what they look like?

90 whole minutes and you consider this perhaps your more sacred moments? He's just a man who has his problems between him and God... like me, and like you.

Experience the Holy Spirit come upon you for a second and you'll see how your 90 minutes can't even compare.

I guess any servant of God who does not meet your standard really aren't doing God's work... huh? What they say/do as God leads them is false in your eyes because they don't meet the Jemand standard of holiness (pure and spotless)?

A heart that God has worked in... since it's under skin that is tattooed, they won't provide you with a "blessed" moment as God shines through them but the bright light is now multicolored due to the tattoos?

Besides... spotless and pure? Come on... BLAMELESS before God, sure and how would we even know that? Pure and spotless? Only a man who looks with natural eyes would say such a thing. Let's not put man up on a pedestal and call a moment with them... sacred. Any man of God hearing you call a meeting with them, sacred... they'd correct you because a man of God is humble.

A sacred moment is reserved for Jesus.

I freely admit that I have met only a few men and women with truly clean hands and a pure heart, and I have met only one human being such as the man with whom I spent those 90 minutes. Such people are to serve as examples to us of how we should conduct our own lives.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

I'm not David Wilkerson so I'm not used the same way as DW. Next we'd have to wear his same style of clothes (which I probably can't afford) and eat the same food he does for the Lord to use me the same as He does DW. Is that what you're saying?

No Slug, I'm trying to help you see that your argument that having tattoos helps you reach out to sinners hold no water and is unscriptural.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

Besides... if you read my posts... I don't speak with "gullible" people, I speak with ones that Christians have hurt, because of their tattoos which they said was sinful and made these people feel that God will not accept them.

Slug, if you'd go back and review what everyone who's against tattoos is posting, I don't remember a single person who said God will not accept a person with a tattoo. I think all of us agree that if a person who already had tattoos came to the Lord, that he was to be accepted the same as everyone else and it's totally ok.

What we are saying is that if you're born again and are thinking of getting a tattoo, then you probably shouldn't. There's a big difference in the two cases and I hope you can see that.

[Slug1]

Slug, if you'd go back and review what everyone who's against tattoos is posting, I don't remember a single person who said God will not accept a person with a tattoo. I think all of us agree that if a person who already had tattoos came to the Lord, that he was to be accepted the same as everyone else and it's totally ok.

What we are saying is that if you're born again and are thinking of getting a tattoo, then you probably shouldn't. There's a big difference in the two cases and I hope you can see that.

Explain to us then scripturally why God says that getting a tattoo is wrong? Also, explain how your explaination cannot be applied to use of the internet, tv, holidays, and anything else that so many Christians do while "other" Christians don't for whatever the reason, whether by God's lead, opinion, oppression, bondage, or just plain attitude due to what they learned through their religion.

We all know God will accept anyone with a tattoo... reread all I have said. There are many out in the world "hurt" by other Christians into thinking that God will not accept them due to their tattoos. Sure, I understand that a man or a women, dressed fine, no tattoos can be used by God in a powerful way. These people don't speak about those they "didn't" lead to Christ because some they spoke to were "SO HURT", they didn't listen to what the nicely, untattooed man/women had to say. Those are the one's the Lord has led me to.

Even if our suit dressed, untattooed man/women of God did plant a seed, others are led to water that seed (or plant) and while you, Jemand, and all the other members of this board in this thread who don't "like" tattoos and speak out against them... the Lord is using those with tattoos to water seeds and plant seeds. Some He's prepared for this, I'm not the only one.

[Slug1]

No Slug, I'm trying to help you see that your argument that having tattoos helps you reach out to sinners hold no water and is unscriptural.

Just as Paul didn't do as the culture he was talking with? Sure, he didn't get a tattoo but with a Jew, he was a Jew, with a gentile, he was a gentile. The Lord will lead us so don't use the scapegoat... "are you saying then, with a drug addict, you're gonna take drugs?"

We are mature in the Lord and we are obedient to His will even when led in ways to reach others. Kinda like Paul, led to preach to the gentiles and some of the Apostles gripped and God had to step in and prove it to some of them of how He was leading Paul different then the rest of them.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

Explain to us then scripturally why God says that getting a tattoo is wrong? Also, explain how your explaination cannot be applied to use of the internet, tv, holidays, and anything else that so many Christians do while "other" Christians don't for whatever the reason, whether by God's lead, opinion, oppression, bondage, or just plain attitude due to what they learned through their religion.

Slug, I don't see any point arguing. The arguments are getting ridiculous. Use of internet? Holidays? What next, diapers? Driving cars? Living in high-rise apartments?

I don't know what you use the internet for but I use it to read and send emails, check out forums on topics of interest to me, read book reviews, look at pictures of pretty hunting knives and maybe play a puzzle game or two when I'm bored. I really don't see the connection.

We all know God will accept anyone with a tattoo... reread all I have said. There are many out in the world "hurt" by other Christians into thinking that God will not accept them due to their tattoos. Sure, I understand that a man or a women, dressed fine, no tattoos can be used by God in a powerful way. These people don't speak about those they "didn't" lead to Christ because some they spoke to were "SO HURT", they didn't listen to what the nicely, untattooed man/women had to say. Those are the one's the Lord has led me to.

The problem is these hurtful people's attitude towards these tattooed people. The problem is not that those people didn't have tattoos. It doesn't make a difference if you have a tattoo or not when you minister to them. What matters is that you love them and accept them for who they are. It'll make no difference if you were tattooed all over and were hurtful, mean-spirited and unkind.

Even if our suit dressed, untattooed man/women of God did plant a seed, others are led to water that seed (or plant) and while you, Jemand, and all the other members of this board in this thread who don't "like" tattoos and speak out against them... the Lord is using those with tattoos to water seeds and plant seeds. Some He's prepared for this, I'm not the only one.

It isn't that we don't "like" tattoos. It's that the Lord has clearly forbidden it in Scripture and that's what we're trying to tell you. The fact that you've gotten tattooed is water under the bridge. It's done, and no one can change that and no one I think is judging anyone for things already done.

What you're unable to understand is that you think that we need to be like sinners to reach sinners. This is unscriptural and unbiblical. Scripture tells us we're a perculiar people, set apart, holy, not of this world. Scripture doesn't tell us to become like the world to reach the world. Scripture says the way to reach the world is through love, intecessory prayer and preaching of the Word of God which is like a sword that pierces the heart.

So at the end of the day, it comes down to this: Do we do it God's way, or do we think we know better and do it our way? Do we have faith to believe God at his Word, that if he says be set apart, and be holy, we obey, or do we act in disbelief and resort to human intelligence and human judgement?

This'll be my last post, because we're just arguing and no one is really listening and thinking. The brain has gone into neutral gear.

[Slug1]

Slug, I don't see any point arguing. The arguments are getting ridiculous. Use of internet? Holidays? What next, diapers? Driving cars? Living in high-rise apartments?

I don't know what you use the internet for but I use it to read and send emails, check out forums on topics of interest to me, read book reviews, look at pictures of pretty hunting knives and maybe play a puzzle game or two when I'm bored. I really don't see the connection.



The problem is these hurtful people's attitude towards these tattooed people. The problem is not that those people didn't have tattoos. It doesn't make a difference if you have a tattoo or not when you minister to them. What matters is that you love them and accept them for who they are. It'll make no difference if you were tattooed all over and were hurtful, mean-spirited and unkind.



It isn't that we don't "like" tattoos. It's that the Lord has clearly forbidden it in Scripture and that's what we're trying to tell you. The fact that you've gotten tattooed is water under the bridge. It's done, and no one can change that and no one I think is judging anyone for things already done.

What you're unable to understand is that you think that we need to be like sinners to reach sinners. This is unscriptural and unbiblical. Scripture tells us we're a perculiar people, set apart, holy, not of this world. Scripture doesn't tell us to become like the world to reach the world. Scripture says the way to reach the world is through love, intecessory prayer and preaching of the Word of God which is like a sword that pierces the heart.

So at the end of the day, it comes down to this: Do we do it God's way, or do we think we know better and do it our way? Do we have faith to believe God at his Word, that if he says be set apart, and be holy, we obey, or do we act in disbelief and resort to human intelligence and human judgement?

This'll be my last post, because we're just arguing and no one is really listening and thinking. The brain has gone into neutral gear.

Point out the scripture... no explaination. Just all the scripture that:

It's that the Lord has clearly forbidden it in Scripture and that's what we're trying to tell you.

I ask for no explaination because only the Holy Spirit convicts of God's truth and God's meaning in the New Covenent.

[Slug1]

No, a tattoo is not sinful, but defacing our bodies with tattoos is very sinful.

Can you post all the scripture without explaination included in the post and allow the Holy Spirit to do the convicting of God's truth... please.