I think the white horse is the Holy Spirit.
He didn't see the white horse until right after he saw the Lamb, looking as if He was slain. I think Jesus' death found Him worthy to open that first seal and send the Holy Spirit. That is my opinion. Good thread.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Notice that this description of Christ has Him wielding the Sword of the Spirit. What is that?
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The rider in Rev 6 is religious deception. Looks somewhat like Christ but is a deluding spirit...
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Many will come in Christ's name saying that He is the Christ, but will deceive many. This is the first seal opened.
Oh yes he is.Two, the overall picture we find in Revelation 19 has less in common with 'second coming' texts of the New Testament, and more in common with 'divine conqueror' texts of the Old Testament. Passages like 2 Samuel 22, where God rides out from heaven on his cherubim-chariot, wrapped in dark clouds, stringing his bow with bolts of lightning, which he uses to destroy... King Saul, when he committed suicide while surrounded by Philistines. Or Isaiah 19, where God rides upon a cloud, flying across the earth toward Egypt, striking terror so deep into his enemies that even the inanimate idols tremble in fear... as the Assyrian armies march under the leadership of Sargon. Or Ezekiel 1-3, where God breaks through a bright cloud, seated upon his cherubim-throne, burning with fire... to announce the fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzer's Babylon.
John isn't describing the second coming of Jesus, he's describing the conquest of the enemies of the Kingdom through the Gospel. Specifically, the fall of the Roman Empire (the beast) and the Caesar cult (the false prophet).
I agree. Based on John's consistency regarding the color white used throughout the Revelation for righteous victory only (it is never associated with the wicked), his consistency regarding the stephanos crown used throughout the Revelation as a reward to righteous victors only (it is never worn by the wicked), and his typical usage of 'conquer' as the obligation of the righteous (the seven churches, the Lion, the twenty-four elders, those cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, etc.)... I see an equivalence between the rider of the white horse with Jesus' prophecy that the Gospel must be proclaimed to all nations.Originally Posted by John 8:32
You don't assume the Lion and the Lamb are two different individuals just because they are two different symbols. You don't say, 'The person in chapter 14 rides a white cloud and has a scythe, but the person in chapter 19 rides a white horse and has a sword, so they must be referring to different persons.' We recognize that different symbols are used for the same individual in each of these cases. The mere fact that one symbol uses a bow and the other uses a sword does not preclude that they may refer to the same individual.The rider on the white horse in Rev 6 goes out with a bow to conquer. The Rider in Rev 19 goes out with a sword...
This only works if you first demand that John has become very inconsistent with his symbolism. Every other use of the color white is associated with righteous victors, never the wicked. Every other use of the stephanos crown is worn by righteous victors, never the wicked. The Greek word for 'conquer' is used most often for righteous victors, and the only two uses for the wicked are specifically made to parallel an OT passage. You haven't given a reason for turning John's consistency upside down for just this one verse out of the whole book.The rider in Rev 6 is religious deception.
This isn't a real objection. I provided reasoning behind my thought. Perhaps you could do the same for yourself, rather than just saying, 'No, you're wrong, I'm right, and that's that.'Oh yes he is.
I'm not really decided about this one way or the other as of yet. But I can see that passage fitting with the following.
First, here's the verse again.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
The reason I might think it fits with the following is because of the word 'conquering'. That word is 'nikao' in the Greek. It can mean to overcome. Coincedentally that same word is used in relation to Christ and His saints overcoming. But it's also used in the following passages.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome(nikao' ) them, and kill them.
If we go over to Revelation 13, we then will see more details about this beast.
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome(nikao' ) them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
So my point is, this could be how the rider on the white horse is seen conquering, and to conquer.
But OTOH, Markedward makes an excellent point about the color white. It always seems to symbolize righteousness, and never seems to be associated with wickedness.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Hmmm, two horns like a lamb, must be Christ. Wait a minute, it is a counterfeit. How do you know?
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And they will...
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
There will be those who can work miracles, but Christ will say...
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Which brings us to Rev 20 and the Millenium.
That's not the point. John consistently tells us when something is being deceptive or wicked in his visions. With the first seal, none of the language he uses is attributed to deception in the book, and is consistently used in relation to righteous victory (the color white, the stephanos crown, the action of 'conquering'). The only exceptions to this are where he uses the stephanos crown in a simile (and not an actual appearance of that type of crown), and where the Greek verb for 'conquering' is used a mere two times by a 'character' that John explicitly tells us is doing evil (in contrast to the thirteen times the same verb for 'conquering' is used for the righteous).Originally Posted by John 8:32
Because John explicitly associates this second beast with the dragon ('it spoke like a dragon'), the first beast ('it exercises all the authority of the first beast'), and that it works deception ('it is allowed to work ... [to] deceive]'). We don't have to go cross-referencing other texts to determine that this beast is deceptive, because John explicitly says it is.Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Hmmm, two horns like a lamb, must be Christ. Wait a minute, it is a counterfeit. How do you know?
In complete contrast, John never identifies the rider of the white horse in chapter 6 with any evil or deceptive activity; he uses language that is consistently used throughout the book for righteous victory.
"For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many" - Mat 24:5
"I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive." - John 5:43
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." - 2 Thes 2:9-11
As far as this bow, how is that to be understood according to the Greek?
from the base of tiktw - tikto 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow.
Here's what I'm now thinking. The word bow seems to be related to some kind of simple fabric. The fact that Jesus would now be exalted and sitting on the right hand of God, what then would simple fabric be doing associated with Him? If the sense is the kind of apparel the rider on the white horse is wearing, then why is simple fabric being attributed to someone who should now be wearing clothes fit for a king, so to speak?
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