Well your reply has confirmed my fears. We no longer have any place to go. The inescapable conclusion has been drawn. I believe Rev 20 is quite literal. You do not believe.Originally Posted by David Taylor
For the cause of Christ
Roger
guest
Well your reply has confirmed my fears. We no longer have any place to go. The inescapable conclusion has been drawn. I believe Rev 20 is quite literal. You do not believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
guest
notuptome, chum, is it not rather peculiar how one is able to make symbols out of literal verses such as Acts 2:38, and then able to make rigid literalizations out of symbolic verses such as Rev 20. Always been a marvel to me. Dividing the word correctly is a vital component of Bble study abd truth seeking.
all the best...
guest
Well said David Taylor. Well said. Amen
all the best...
Openbaring 19:7
No David....the battle of Armageddon is after the 7 year tribulation and the second coming is after the 7 year tribulation after which there will be a 1000 year reign by Chrsit on earth.
"The Lord has chosen Zion, He has desired it for His dwelling." (Psalm 132:13)
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guest
Face it Johnny. When Jesus returns, it's over! finished. Kaput! Tout finee'
You are trying to literalize symbolic literature again. No reign on earth for 1000 years. Jesus Kingdom is NOT of this world. He said so Himself. Do you not believe Him? Tribulation is history. Ain't gonna happen Johnny. Big fat Zero for Israel (nation). Sorry.
all the best...
Openbaring 19:7
kay-gee......all the best then for you in the Tribulation......if you are not part of the rapture......and if you survive the Tribulation.....see you at the Mount of Olives afterwards. (That is if i am part of the Rapture God willingly)
"The Lord has chosen Zion, He has desired it for His dwelling." (Psalm 132:13)
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"Christ is all" Col 3:11
As long as there are lost sinners in the world, Jesus has given us the charge to take the gospel to them, not leave the planet while the battle for their souls is still underway.
My hope isn't to be removed from the planet, but rather, to reach one more lost soul, and even if I am asked to lay down my life for my Lord in doing so, I know a great crowd of witnesses before me have already done so, and my reward will be to hear the Master say, well done my good and faithful servant.
When the battle for people's eternal souls are at stake, I dont want to hope for reprieve or escape from the battle.
As Peter said, if ye be reproached for the name of Christ, then happy are ye, for when ye are persecuted for His name's sake, it brings glory to the Lord.
Look and hope for planet removal and escape from the charge of the great commission if you must...
however, for those who feel called of God who as Paul said, "who are alive and remain unto the Coming of the Lord", I ask for those strength, peace, and preserverence to continue taking the life-giving gospel of Christ to the lost, until the very end.
Remember faithful Christians, ye are the lively stones along with the OT saints as the foundation and Christ the cornerstone, of the final, last, and eternally perfect temple of God, made without hands. There are more blocks to add to the walls, dont give up, and dont let fear of persecution remove your zeal to share Christ with the lost, no matter the severity of tribulation you might have to endure. Ye are the might temple of God, and you who stay faithful til the end will prevail!!!
Senior Member
Actually, it is neither a Messianic or gentile believer that wants to build a third temple, for we know who we are in Christ.
However, if you still seek a redeemer, a savior, a Messiah, and failed, as a Jew, to know the 'suffering Messiah', you will most certainly fight, with all strength, power, and numbers, for the right to build, unto the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, a third temple.
IMHO, the temple will be built.. And on the day that the priest offers his first sacrifice and oblation, an angel will take a golden censer, fill it with fire from the heavenly altar, and cast it "into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake." Rev.8:5
Perhaps, that will be the start, of the first day, of the last 7 years, of Daniel's 70 weeks.
In all my 61 yrs. I have learned that a deep seeded religious belief is the most difficult of all things to change.
fellow servant
Kind of interesting to see a Jew that reads the NT with more understanding than a Christian.
Terrorism.
Coming to a police station near you.
Maybe, soon.
GAL 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?
AMOS 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Posting Freak
Dear Saints,Kind of interesting to see a Jew that reads the NT with more understanding than a Christian.
Terrorism.
Coming to a police station near you.
Maybe, soon.
Might I suggest that there is no prophesy that suggests that there will be a "physical earthly brick-and-mortar third temple/tabernacle" in our future?
Why?
Well, the other three were built by God's prophetic power only. Thus, I feel that there is a fundamental misunderstanding concerning what is needed to have an earthly temple/tabernacle that would be the Home of our YHWH.
In the scriptures, YHWH has given abundant examples of His specific procedures of physical "made with hands" earthly temple construction. In each and every case, the prophetic command to build (with a "thus says the Lord--rise up people of God and construct my temple" power message) was provided without fail. Now, all of us have dwelling places, and we want then to be built correctly, yes?
So does YHWH.
And no group of people--regardless of talent or will--can build a future earthly temple facility that would contain YHWH's massive presence and power without His specific Spiritual Prophetic Power and guidance.
Let's look now at Heb. 8:
Now, this true heavenly tabernacle is eternal, and the immortal King/High Priest Jesus is seated there right now at the right hand of God. And this heavenly tabernacle facility has been of old, and will never be destroyed. So, how did Jesus get into this facility to sit at YHWH's right hand? Look at the verses in bold type below:Heb. 8
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.
Yep.Heb. 10
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,
17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Jesus made ONE sacrifice for sins for ALL time, and after He did this, He SAT DOWN--at YHWH's right hand in the heavenly tabernacle.
This is foundational to the Gospel.
And because of this, Jesus administers from the heavenly tabernacle His Kingdom rule and High Priestly ministry through the Spirit of God to the hearts of his current "earthly" temple: the "one new man" believers in Christ of Eph. 2 and I Pet. 2:9-10.
Finally, let us consider the following prophecy concerning the last earthly "made with hands" brick-and-mortar physical temple that was on the earth--Zerubabbel's/Herod's:
Of course, this is Gabriel's "70 weeks (of years)" prophecy. And when this prophecy was given by Gabriel to Daniel, there was NO earthly "made with hands" brick-and-mortar physical temple of YHWH on the earth.Dan. 9
24“Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
25“So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
26“Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27“And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”
Really.
Therefore, Gabriel indicates to Daniel that the determination of desolation of a rebuilt earthly physical "brick-and-mortar" temple sanctuary would occur within 70 weeks of years (among other things). And the rebuilt facility that Gabriel was referring to was Zerubabbel's/Herod's Temple.
Now, if this is true, then there is no "7 years of tribulation" in our future.
Why?
Because the determination of desolation was given by Jesus Christ Himself in reference to Zerubabbel's/Herod's Temple already--and during His first advent (in bold below):
Matt. 23
34“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36“Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39“For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”
And within a generation of the determination of desolation, the temple of Zerubabbel/Herod was destroyed. (This is confirmed by secular and sacred history--in the year 70.)
Of course, this means that the "70 weeks (or years)" prophesy has been fulfilled already.
Does this make sense?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
guest
True words Billy Brown. There is no doubt that the temple is already built and Christ is it's corner stone.
This third temple in Jerusalem thing is a serious error.
all the best...
Posting Freak
. . . temples and tabernacles
Thanks kay-gee,
And here is a list of all of the "facilities" that YHWH has lived in (or lives in) so far--as established by SPIRITUAL Prophetic command POWER:
Now, these four "facilities" above are the only ones that have been (or are) functional on the earth--and are represented in the Bible by MUCH prophetic command for their construction/configuration.1) The Tabernacle in the Wilderness ( . . . this was replaced by Solomon's Temple).
2) Solomon's Temple ( . . . this was destroyed long ago).
3) Zerubabbel's/Herod's Temple (These are put together because Herod's Temple was an expansion of Zerubabbel's Temple--this was destroyed long ago).
4) The Church of Jesus Christ (the current "earthly Temple").
(And of course, we have the true "eternal" heavenly tabernacle also; that facility has been of old, and will never be destroyed. The immortal King/High Priest Jesus is seated there right now at the right hand of God. This facility was the "model" for the "tabernacle in the wilderness" of Moses' time.)
But yet still, there are those who would indicate that there will be the following on the earth in our future:
And yet, there are NO scriptures that indicate a spiritual POWER command from YHWH for the construction of these facilities.1) Tribulation Temple
2) Millennial Temple
Not one.
Interesting . . .
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
fellow servant
...But it fits that scenario too well.
Besides the fact that there are no scriptures precluding another temple, it would fit the scenario perfectly if Israel would give up their weapons of war in exchange for the temple and the destruction of all Christian Shrines.
I cannot think of a verse in the Bible that refers to the end times that would be averse to that event.
Can you?
GAL 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?
AMOS 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Coffee Break
**
Possibly ; but I consider that the temple Christ referred to was his Body...and it is also the "Church"....
So when the prophecy speaks of "THe (Anti- Christ) sitting in the temple", it could very well refer to the incarnate devil sitting in the Church...
That sleeze bag always wants to counterfeit God...and now here is his chance...in order to "if it were possible even to deceive the very elect".
Creator
Coffee Break
**
No It makes no sense at all, because you forget to read the entire passage where Jesus referred to the abomination of desolation....he said IT WILL LEAD TO THE GREAT TRIBULATION >Dear Saints,
Might I suggest that there is no prophesy that suggests that there will be a "physical earthly brick-and-mortar third temple/tabernacle" in our future?
Why?
Well, the other three were built by God's prophetic power only. Thus, I feel that there is a fundamental misunderstanding concerning what is needed to have an earthly temple/tabernacle that would be the Home of our YHWH.
In the scriptures, YHWH has given abundant examples of His specific procedures of physical "made with hands" earthly temple construction. In each and every case, the prophetic command to build (with a "thus says the Lord--rise up people of God and construct my temple" power message) was provided without fail. Now, all of us have dwelling places, and we want then to be built correctly, yes?
So does YHWH.
And no group of people--regardless of talent or will--can build a future earthly temple facility that would contain YHWH's massive presence and power without His specific Spiritual Prophetic Power and guidance.
Now, if this is true, then there is no "7 years of tribulation" in our future.
Why?
Because the determination of desolation was given by Jesus Christ Himself in reference to Zerubabbel's/Herod's Temple already--and during His first advent (in bold below):
Of course, this means that the "70 weeks (or years)" prophesy has been fulfilled already.
Does this make sense?
AND he said that " IMMEDIATELY AFTER ther tribulation of those days , the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light.....and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with the armies of heaven...."
Has that happened yet? NO? Then neither has the abomination and tribulation happened yet either.
Creator
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