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Thread: A Question on Luke 9:55-56

  1. #1

    A Question on Luke 9:55-56

    I don't know much about the different parchments that the KJV or other bibles are translated from, but I have a question as to why this verse is translated so differently between KJV and say ESV and other versions.

    KJV
    Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
    Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
    Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

    ESV
    Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
    Luk 9:55 But he turned and rebuked them.
    Luk 9:56 And they went on to another village.

    NASB
    54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[a]?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and[b] they went to another village.

    There is a chunk of red text that's left out of the ESV and NASB as well as many other Bible versions. Was it because of differences in the manuscripts?

    Thanks!
    Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
    There is a chunk of red text that's left out of the ESV and NASB as well as many other Bible versions. Was it because of differences in the manuscripts?
    Yes, there are textual variants here between the Greek texts used by the KJV translators and modern English versions. The newer versions have opted to utilize the shorter readings found in earlier manuscripts.

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    This is precisely why one should only use the KJV....

    Ok, I'm running out of here before I get hit with something.

    (I'm a King James girl)
    .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

    ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
    .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a




  4. #4
    To go with that, the KJV and it's variants use the Textus Receptus as the underlying text, and the NASB and ESV use the Nestle-Aland text as the basis.
    Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



    ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


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    Quote Originally Posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
    There is a chunk of red text that's left out of the ESV and NASB as well as many other Bible versions. Was it because of differences in the manuscripts?
    As Nomad offered, there is a difference in texts here. Take a look at this link on Studylight.org . You should see some radio box selections for the greek manuscripts source. My understanding is that the KJV uses the Textus Receptus and the NASB uses the Nestle'-Aland 26. You can use the selection box on the right to select the NASB Strong's Version and then select the Nestle' manuscripts to view the translation of the NASB. There is quite a bit of difference on these verses.

    You should also know that this is a matter of controversy among some folks. You can understand why this might be considering the important matter of the preservation of the texts used for translation. We have to realize that what we have are compilations of manuscripts and thus are generational representations of the originals. There are some well educated folks on this matter in these forums that can give more flavor for this than I but I hope you enjoy the tools given at Studylight.org that I linked. I find them very useful in my studies. The site also offers linked on line commentaries and lexicons.

    God Bless!
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karenoka27 View Post
    This is precisely why one should only use the KJV....
    With all due respect, that simply isn't true. The KJV translators only had access to relatively few late date Greek manuscripts of the Byzantine text type. They did the best they could and they did a wonderful job. While there is nothing wrong with the KJV we have a more numerous and older manuscript tradition today to utilize. Textual variants do exist (even among the manuscripts used by the KJV translators) and they must be dealt with unless we want to bury our heads in the sand and remain ignorant.

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    I would suggest to you to get a parallel bible; one that includes both the KJV along with several of the other newer translations like the NIV, NASB, etc....

    That way, when there is a difference, you can see what it is and where it differs in the different manuscript types.

    The good thing about textual criticism and the debate over which text-type is more accurate; is that 100% of the concepts and biblical teachings found in one family of manuscripts is also found in the other.

    It may appear on the surface that some verses are being 'removed from the KJV' however, the newer translations aren't translating 'from' the KJV to begin with, so nothing is removed. Even of the parts that conflict,
    no biblical Christian doctrine is sacrificed or omitted, but can be found in other passages, often in relation to the gospels, almost verbatim in one of the other gospel's from the one it appears to be missing from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    The newer versions have opted to utilize the shorter readings found in earlier manuscripts.
    This (in bold) is not entirely accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgyver View Post
    To go with that, the KJV and it's variants use the Textus Receptus as the underlying text, and the NASB and ESV use the Nestle-Aland text as the basis.
    ....and what it (in bold) was based on. It just just drop out of the sky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    With all due respect, that simply isn't true. The KJV translators only had access to relatively few late date Greek manuscripts of the Byzantine text type.
    Research. This is not true.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by watchinginawe View Post
    As Nomad offered, there is a difference in texts here. Take a look at this link on Studylight.org . You should see some radio box selections for the greek manuscripts source. My understanding is that the KJV uses the Textus Receptus and the NASB uses the Nestle'-Aland 26. You can use the selection box on the right to select the NASB Strong's Version and then select the Nestle' manuscripts to view the translation of the NASB. There is quite a bit of difference on these verses.
    Hi watchinginawe,
    Thanks for the link.

    I tried it and Textus Receptus says:
    9:55
    strafeiv de epetimhsen autoiv kai eipen ouk oidate oiou pneumatov este umeiv


    9:56
    o gar uiov tou anyrwpou ouk hlyen qucav anyrwpwn apolesai alla swsai kai eporeuyhsan eiv eteran kwmhn


    Nestle-Aland says:
    9:55

    strafeiv (5651) de epetimhsen (5656) autoiv.


    9:56
    kai eporeuqhsan (5675) eiv eteran kwmhn.


    The Byzantine text has the extras in Textus Receptus in brackets.



    However how do I get the English words to display what the Greek texts are saying? Or is that not possible?



    Thanks.

    Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karenoka27 View Post
    This is precisely why one should only use the KJV....

    Ok, I'm running out of here before I get hit with something.

    (I'm a King James girl)
    OUCH!!! I think that banana peel missed you and hit me, as I also am in the KJV mush pot with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
    However how do I get the English words to display what the Greek texts are saying? Or is that not possible?
    ThyWordIsTruth, try looking for the "side by side" feature. That will give you the greek words with the english words right beside them for the selected Bible I think. You can try chaning the manuscript but I think side by side is for the Bible selected, so do the KJV Strongs and then the NAS Strongs.

    God Bless!
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

  14. #14
    thanks for the tip!
    Tit 3:2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThyWordIsTruth View Post
    I don't know much about the different parchments that the KJV or other bibles are translated from, but I have a question as to why this verse is translated so differently between KJV and say ESV and other versions.

    KJV
    Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
    Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
    Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

    ESV
    Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
    Luk 9:55 But he turned and rebuked them.
    Luk 9:56 And they went on to another village.

    NASB
    54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[a]?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and[b] they went to another village.

    There is a chunk of red text that's left out of the ESV and NASB as well as many other Bible versions. Was it because of differences in the manuscripts?

    Thanks!
    That is because man, who is obsessed with finding fault with what God gives us, had to scrub and look for reasons to demostrate that when Jesus said:

    Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Mt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    Mk 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    Lk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

    Lk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    That he was not serious about it. Yeah, KJV or Reina Valera 1960 in Spanish.

    Shalom

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