Cults

[Equipped_4_Love]

How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?

[The Mighty Sword]

How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?

I believe satans hand is in cults that add to scripture, I believe they are designed to control their "congregation" which can and does take the yoke of Christ away from believers, and some cult are more subtle than others, but satan inspires men to create doctrines contrary to the doctrine of Christ.

Again that is just my belief through experience.

[daughter]

Jehova's Witnesses believe in another Jesus... a created being, not God incarnate, and the Mormon's received their "scripture" via Joseph Smith, who claims to have received it from an angel, along the same lines as Mohomed was said to receive the Koran.

This scripture from 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 answers your question I think. Paul says to the Corinthians,

"But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

In other words, everything we see in cults... a different Jesus, a different gospel, a different spirit, is warned about by the apostle. He warns later in the same chapter that satan comes as an angel of light.

Whether these cults start off because of the flesh... man's pride, or direct satanic involvement, I don't think it matters in the end. It all serves the devil's purpose, drawing us from Christ. For what it's worth, I think it's a bit of both... the fleshly weakness, pride, gives quarter to the devil, who comes in and makes the mess even worse.

[David Taylor]

How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?

They are misleading thousands of people to follow a fake jesus and a fake god that neither can save them from their sins....doesn't sound like something God-ordained....to deceive thousands about the true nature, being, and identity of God seems pretty demonic to me.

Appearing as an angel of light using the scripture to twist and deceive has been a longtime trick of Satan and his minions.

As the serpent said, "Take this rock, and turn it into bread, for the scriptures say...."

[Bezant]

"How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?"

I'd be more careful with my wording, because it sounds like you're singling these communities out. The Devil doesn't take breaks anywhere.

One thing, as much as I find much fault with J.W. theology, every one I have met and all the communities I've encountered live clean lives, and there seems to be no wickedness motivating their activities (e.g., they're not out to get converts for money). That is my experience.

[Athanasius]

"How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?"

I'd be more careful with my wording, because it sounds like you're singling these communities out. The Devil doesn't take breaks anywhere.
One thing, as much as find much fault with J.W. theology, every one I have met and all the communities I've encountered live clean lives, and there seems to be no wickedness motivating their activities (e.g., they're not out to get converts for money)--that's in my experience.

Paul suffered pain with joy knowing that an eternal perspective greatly - and definitively - overshadowed any earthly discomfort. Turn his words around, does living a "clean life" now seem so secure, when a proper eternal perspective is applied--destruction for those who aren't in Christ. A few moments of pain and an eternity of comfort, or a few moments of comfort and an eternity of pain. I'm quite sure Mormons and JW's are very nice people, and we shouldn't alienate ourselves from them (the cost is too high). In the end, what does all this "good living" matter for those who reject Christ?

[Clydson]

How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?

I personally doubt that Satan had anything to do with the beginning of any man-made cult, except by way of invitation. He would have used the opportunity afforded him by human invention to sway through temptation the human heart toward more evilness. Cults are by scriptural definition human inventions. Satan is merely an invited guest offering his help.

[Bezant]

Paul suffered pain with joy knowing that an eternal perspective greatly - and definitively - overshadowed any earthly discomfort. Turn his words around, does living a "clean life" now seem so secure, when a proper eternal perspective is applied--destruction for those who aren't in Christ. A few moments of pain and an eternity of comfort, or a few moments of comfort and an eternity of pain. I'm quite sure Mormons and JW's are very nice people, and we shouldn't alienate ourselves from them (the cost is too high). In the end, what does all this "good living" matter for those who reject Christ?

If I understand you correctly you're saying that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's rejection of mainstream Christian faith will hinder them from any benefit, even if they live clean lives as I said? If I'm correct, what is that "benefit"? And why do you believe we should not alienate ourselves from them? What is the cost? What is the alternative to the cost?

In the end, what does all this "good living" matter for those who reject Christ?


Unless you clarify I must disagree here. To me it sounds like this: I am a J.W. thus I reject Christ. Because I reject him it does not matter whether I live a good life or not. I will endeavor to become a bandit, loot every shop on the high street, and make my wealthy face known to every criminal most wanted list, because in the end, when I die, my rejection of Christ will be what harms me and not my bad living.

Of course to the Jehovah's Witness' and Mormon minds it is mainstream Christianity, not they, who reject Christ to an extent. I find error in both theologies, but in order to accept Christ in full love we require the option to fully reject Him. If after studying thoroughly if one rejects mainstream Christianity because it is against his conscience, he is only moving in the direction he believes to be the "true faith" that pleases God. I hope that in spite of the problems in their theology (which has some truths) that they continue living good lives, if not for their souls but for all while we are on earth colliding with each other.

[Athanasius]

If I understand you correctly you're saying that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's rejection of mainstream Christian faith will hinder them from any benefit, even if they live clean lives as I said? If I'm correct, what is that "benefit"? And why do you believe we should not alienate ourselves from them? What is the cost? What is the alternative to the cost?

I am saying that Mormons and JW's reject Jesus, don't confuse that with "mainstream Christian faith". And the "cost" of alienating ourseleves from them is the potential destination of their souls (i.e. people who live "good lives" still go to hell).

Unless you clarify I must disagree here. To me it sounds like this: I am a J.W. thus I reject Christ. Because I reject him it does not matter whether I live a good life or not. I will endeavor to become a bandit, loot every shop on the high street, and make my wealthy face known to every criminal most wanted list, because in the end, when I die, my rejection of Christ will be what harms me and not my bad living.

No... That's not at all what I said. See above.

Of course to the Jehovah's Witness' and Mormon minds it is mainstream Christianity, not they, who reject Christ to an extent. I find error in both theologies, but in order to accept Christ in full love we require the option to fully reject Him. If after studying thoroughly if one rejects mainstream Christianity because it is against his conscience, he is only moving in the direction he believes to be the "true faith" that pleases God. I hope that in spite of the problems in their theology (which has some truths) that they continue living good lives, if not for their souls but for all while we are on earth colliding with each other.

Scripture is quite plain, reject Christ and you won't be with Him in eternity. Especially if you reject him after "thorough study". It's not an excuse to say, "Well I rejected this person's poor representation of Christ, not Christ Himself!"

[Bezant]

I am saying that Mormons and JW's reject Jesus, don't confuse that with "mainstream Christian faith". And the "cost" of alienating ourseleves from them is the potential destination of their souls (i.e. people who live "good lives" still go to hell).

I see.

Scripture is quite plain, reject Christ and you won't be with Him in eternity. Especially if you reject him after "thorough study". It's not an excuse to say, "Well I rejected this person's poor representation of Christ, not Christ Himself!"

Yes, if one deliberately rejects Christ, even after realizing Who He is, then you are not saved. But to reject Him requires one to know Who you're rejecting. If you have neither studied Christianity nor reconciled it with your conscience, as in realize that it is the true faith, and you accept Christ anyway, a) you are agreeing to terms you haven't read or b) you are lying, because you accept something your conscience considers a lie.

Thorough study is not always enough. I know a brilliant early American professor very well versed in Christian Scripture and doctrine, whose expertise is in 16th and 17th century English/American sermons--everything from Wigglesworth to Shepards (some very dense stuff). In spite many years of in depth study of Christian literature and Scripture she has been an Orthodox Jew all her life.

[losthorizon]

How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?

There are only two forms of organized religion - the synagogue of Satan and the synagogue of God. To answer your question – "demonic elements" are alive and active in the synagogue of Satan.

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. (Rev 3:9)

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that as God he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Etc. (2 Thes. 2:1-12)

[Tiffany Faith]

My husband's family is Seventh Day Adventist. Are the adventist a christian cult? They don't deny the deity of God but they don't believe in enternal hell and they believe that when you die your soul sleeps in the grave until resurection. They also have a "prophetess: Ellen White who tells them to not eat certain kinds of meat and also to go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, going sofar as to say that all us Sunday goers are doomed to perish with the rest of satan's followers and only the true sabbath keepers will enter Heaven. My husband went to a SDA private school his whole life but he's not anymore since he's been with me and I have shown him in the bible where these assumptions about hell and death are false. But are the SDA a cult??? Someone please help!!!!

[The Mighty Sword]

Because some cults believe they are doing GODs works I believe fall under this category of scripture:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And I for one believe these are the very influences that guide and direct these cults, a Wise and Learned man posted this saying:

The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still.
--A.W. Tozer

[losthorizon]

My husband's family is Seventh Day Adventist. Are the adventist a christian cult? They don't deny the deity of God but they don't believe in enternal hell and they believe that when you die your soul sleeps in the grave until resurection. They also have a "prophetess: Ellen White who tells them to not eat certain kinds of meat and also to go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, going sofar as to say that all us Sunday goers are doomed to perish with the rest of satan's followers and only the true sabbath keepers will enter Heaven. My husband went to a SDA private school his whole life but he's not anymore since he's been with me and I have shown him in the bible where these assumptions about hell and death are false. But are the SDA a cult??? Someone please help!!!!

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. (Heb 1:1-2 ESV)

I think you have answered your question – God has spoken to man “in these last days” by the revelation of Jesus the Christ. Any man (Joseph Smith, etc) or woman (E.G. White, etc) who claims to speak directly from God with 'new revelation' contrary to God's revealed word is a false prophet/prophetess.

Ellen G. White clearly qualifies as a 'false prophet' and her erroneous teachings should be rejected as not coming from God. Those who follow such a false prophet and the organization that perpetuates the error of the false prophet (the SDA organization) are part of a non-Christian cult. God tells those in such cults to “come out from among them”.

"In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." --Ellen G. White

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. (2 Corinthians 6:17)

[moonglow]

"How much of a direct, deliberate influence do you believe Satan had in the origin of so-called Christian cults, like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons?

Do you believe that there is a demonic element at work in these churches?"

I'd be more careful with my wording, because it sounds like you're singling these communities out. The Devil doesn't take breaks anywhere.

One thing, as much as I find much fault with J.W. theology, every one I have met and all the communities I've encountered live clean lives, and there seems to be no wickedness motivating their activities (e.g., they're not out to get converts for money). That is my experience.

Appearances can be deceiving. The JW tell on each other like little children on a playground. They are taught to do so.

Highlights of the Beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses

Most Christian churches have a system of moral oversight, but their systems are set up to help individuals with problems. Only after extensive effort over a period of time is action taken. Jehovah's Witnesses claim that Disfellowshipping is a loving act but in fact it is their most important control mechanism. It allows the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to control its members with guilt and fear.

The Watchtower Society makes a lot of rules, based on their interpretations of various scriptures, that all Jehovah's Witnesses must follow. Members are taught that that they must turn each other in for any rule violations. If they observe another Jehovah's Witness breaking a rule and do not report him or her to the elders they are as guilty as the offending party. Anyone breaking any of the Watchtower Society rules is called before 3 elders in a private meeting that is conducted like a trial. The elders become judge and jury deciding whose is repentant and who is not.

Members who are found to be unrepentant of violations of Watchtower rules by these elders, are disfellowshipped. Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for a number of rule violations: premarital or extramarital sex, using alcohol excessively, using tobacco products, celebrating Christmas, reciting the pledge of allegiance, lying, stealing, joining the military, speaking to a disfellowshipped Witness, reading religious material not published by the governing body, or running for political office just to name a few. Fellow members are then required to shun him/her completely, having no contact even if the disfellowshipped person is a family member. (Some allowances are made if the family member is living in the same household). Disfellowshipping has a devastating effect because the individual's entire religious, family and social life are rooted in the Society. Keep in mind Jehovah’s Witnesses who are disfellowshipped are no longer part of the Watchtower Society and have, therefore, lost all hope of salvation until they can prove themselves worthy of being accepted back into the Watchtower Organization by their works.

I had a friend in high school many years ago that got pregnant out of wedlock. Her parents were JW's. She had to stand before the whole church and be scolded for what she did. Most of the details of what happened were too embarrassing for her to talk about even to me, her best friend. When my step dad felt called to become a pastor her parents no longer wanted her and I to remain friends. He went over there once for something..I don't remember what, wearing a cross. The look of sheer hatred on my the mother's face is something I will never forgot. We were considered demons, unsaved, heathens at this point by the parents. My friends life was control in every way! The huge amount of rules and regulations they had to follow, 'or else' is just awful. the pressure they are under is horrible. These people believe works (and alot of works) saves them. They follow the teachings of the Watchtower more then the bible...and the rules are always changing. Fear and manipulation keeps a person locked into this cult. Its all very sad indeed.

Here is another link to their beliefs: http://www.carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

Also remember they will allow their own babies and children to die rather then get them a blood transfusion...and if the doctor gets a court order (which they can) they will kidnap their own children from the hospital to keep that from happening and allow them to just die then receive the medical help they need.

So don't think they are living 'clean lives' just because they don't smoke, drink or cuss. Its far from it.

God bless