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Thread: Confused bout 2 Thes. 2:6

  1. #1
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    Confused bout 2 Thes. 2:6

    All the commentaries that I've been reading seem to indicate that the one who restrains here is the Roman Empire.....but the problem is, the Roman Empire WAS taken out ages ago, and the anti-Christ still has not been revealed.

    So, then, is there a gap of time that is insinuated between the fall of Rome and the revelation of the anti-Christ, or is this not who Paul was referring to?

    Doesn;t make much sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    All the commentaries that I've been reading seem to indicate that the one who restrains here is the Roman Empire.....but the problem is, the Roman Empire WAS taken out ages ago, and the anti-Christ still has not been revealed.

    So, then, is there a gap of time that is insinuated between the fall of Rome and the revelation of the anti-Christ, or is this not who Paul was referring to?

    Doesn;t make much sense to me.
    The one who restrains is the angel of the Lord.

    Revelation 20:1-3
    Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

    The angel will continue to restrain our enemy until time for the great falling away . . . which many believe we are seeing that now.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    The one who restrains is the angel of the Lord.

    Revelation 20:1-3
    Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
    That's not what these commentators are saying, VR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    That's not what these commentators are saying, VR
    I realize that. I do not agree with those commentaries.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    I realize that. I do not agree with those commentaries.
    I normally wouldn't, either, but a lot of them are saying this.

    What makes you so sure that they are wrong?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    All the commentaries that I've been reading seem to indicate that the one who restrains here is the Roman Empire.....but the problem is, the Roman Empire WAS taken out ages ago, and the anti-Christ still has not been revealed.

    So, then, is there a gap of time that is insinuated between the fall of Rome and the revelation of the anti-Christ, or is this not who Paul was referring to?

    Doesn;t make much sense to me.
    What is the one thing on this earth that restrains evil? It is the Holy Spirit. So it only makes sense that at the Rapture Christ will return for His Bride and thus will remove the hinderance of all the believers on the earth at that time which will then allow the AntiChrist to be fully revealed.

    I know I am going to get question about the saints beheaded in the tribulation and who they were. These are the Tribulation saints.
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes
    End Times - The Days We Live in Short Video

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    All the commentaries that I've been reading seem to indicate that the one who restrains here is the Roman Empire.....but the problem is, the Roman Empire WAS taken out ages ago, and the anti-Christ still has not been revealed.

    So, then, is there a gap of time that is insinuated between the fall of Rome and the revelation of the anti-Christ, or is this not who Paul was referring to?

    Doesn;t make much sense to me.
    You're right and it shouldn't make sense. Commentaries rarely do. It's not Rome.
    The subject is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" vss 1-3, 8-9.

    "what withholdeth" is given in v3.
    "a falling away"

    When the lack of sound doctrine/truth reaches a certain point the man of sin will be revealed.
    For now, sound doctrine/truth preached by the Spirit through the Church holds back the man of sin.
    I'm not saying the Spirit is taken out of the world. Just that as the level of truth decreases the level of evil increases as it was in the days of Noah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirus View Post
    You're right and it shouldn't make sense. Commentaries rarely do. It's not Rome.
    The subject is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" vss 1-3, 8-9.

    "what withholdeth" is given in v3.
    "a falling away"

    When the lack of sound doctrine/truth reaches a certain point the man of sin will be revealed.
    For now, sound doctrine/truth preached by the Spirit through the Church holds back the man of sin.
    I'm not saying the Spirit is taken out of the world. Just that as the level of truth decreases the level of evil increases as it was in the days of Noah.
    Yes....I know what you're saying about commentaries, but I am not going to discount every single commentator based on the fact that they don't agree with my understanding.

    Please explain to me how the understanding of this restraining force shifted from the Roman empire to the Holy Spirit. Any evidence to support your claim would be gratly appreciated.

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    When was it ever the Roman empire?

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    I don't know. That is why I'm asking you fine folks for help.

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    BTW; the Roman Empire (power behind) never really was taken out.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    Yes....I know what you're saying about commentaries, but I am not going to discount every single commentator based on the fact that they don't agree with my understanding.

    Please explain to me how the understanding of this restraining force shifted from the Roman empire to the Holy Spirit. Any evidence to support your claim would be gratly appreciated.
    In 2 Thes 2:7 it says
    "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way" KJV

    The greek word used for "he be taken" is ginomai. A few possible meaning of this word are:
    a) arise be assembled
    b) be married

    The interesting thing is "be marred"... Exactly what happens when Christ returns for His Bride.
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes
    End Times - The Days We Live in Short Video

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    I don't know. That is why I'm asking you fine folks for help.
    They have some amil or preterist views that contort their interpretation of that verse.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    All the commentaries that I've been reading seem to indicate that the one who restrains here is the Roman Empire.....but the problem is, the Roman Empire WAS taken out ages ago, and the anti-Christ still has not been revealed.

    So, then, is there a gap of time that is insinuated between the fall of Rome and the revelation of the anti-Christ, or is this not who Paul was referring to?
    This is a notoriously difficult passage, both in translation and interpretation (particularly as it refers back to unwritten things Paul had said to the Thessalonians in person). The ESV translates "And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time." The great theologian Augustine wrote about this verse "I frankly confess I do not know what he {Paul} means."

    However, Augustine was one of the first to suggest that this might refer to the Roman Empire. It can be taken more generally to refer to well-ordered secular governments which restrain the worst leaders (see the excellent commentary by Hendriksen). In other words the "man of lawlessness" is restrained by law, and such well-ordered secular governments still exist today. In Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia we begin to see what an unrestrained "man of lawlessness" might look like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    Yes....I know what you're saying about commentaries, but I am not going to discount every single commentator based on the fact that they don't agree with my understanding.
    Very wise!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by thedee View Post
    The greek word used for "he be taken" is ginomai. A few possible meaning of this word are:
    a) arise be assembled
    b) be married

    The interesting thing is "be marred"... Exactly what happens when Christ returns for His Bride.
    Ginomia does not mean "be married," it means "become." This only refers to marriage in phrases like "become belonging-to-a-man." In 2 Thes 2:7, the phrase is "out-of-the-midst become," which translates as "taken out of the way."

    Being able to use some word-search tools is very helpful, but it doesn't mean you can do a better job of translation than the experts that have produced the fine translations we have today!

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