Atheists - do they exist?

[Dani H]

I'm of the conviction that atheism isn't really an issue and that self-proclaimed atheists are really something else entirely.

I think that when we witness to people, we can't take how they label themselves at face value. I believe that when we share God with somebody, we have to really find out where people are actually at, instead of where they think they're at, and meet them there. That requires discernment and understanding and the willingness to seek God on their behalf so we can give them what they really need and tell them what they really need to hear, and not reason with them on their terms, but on God's.

Thoughts?

[RabbiKnife]

Atheists cannot exist.

An atheists says absolutely that there is no God.
In doing so, they declare themselves that knower of all knowledge, a characteristic of God.
Therefore, they have declared themselves God.

Atheists are not atheists. They are Metheists.

[GreekAsianPanda]

There are people who do not believe God exists. By definition, those people are atheists. Therefore, atheists exist.

[-SEEKING-]

I think Matt Chandler said it in a pretty clever way.

The 2 tenets of atheism are:
1. There is no God.
2. I hate God.

Like he said if God is just some kind of fairy tale, why do they get so upset at Him. You don't see people getting mad at Tinkerbell.

[Slug1]

I'm of the conviction that atheism isn't really an issue and that self-proclaimed atheists are really something else entirely.

I think that when we witness to people, we can't take how they label themselves at face value. I believe that when we share God with somebody, we have to really find out where people are actually at, instead of where they think they're at, and meet them there. That requires discernment and understanding and the willingness to seek God on their behalf so we can give them what they really need and tell them what they really need to hear, and not reason with them on their terms, but on God's.

Thoughts?

Can I invent a word... they are dedicated: Denialists

So... discernment is needed because once the Holy Spirit reveals where to find the holes and how to fill those holes with the Word... they will begin to question. Their dedication to denial of God will begin to receed. Continued prayer and continued watering until the seed is planted and then the watering continues and then God will make the seed(s) grow.

[tango]

There are people who do not believe God exists. By definition, those people are atheists. Therefore, atheists exist.

Not strictly true. There's a big difference between two statements "I do not believe God exists" and "I believe God does not exist". Those making the latter statement have an active belief in the non-existence of God and can therefore be called atheists. The majority, I believe, fall into the former category who do not have an active belief that God does exist but equally do not have an active belief that God does not exist and are therefore agnostic rather than atheist.

[notuptome]

Atheists are better described as antagonists. They do not like God nor do they wish to retain Him as He is but change Him into their vain imaginations. Their foolish heart is darkened. Rom 1:19-22

As has been noted they betray themselves by arguing against that which they claim does not exist.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Dani H]

I deal a lot with Christian Answers, and I've recently taken a cold, hard look at the arguments that people bring to the table.

And what I see is, subjectivity. These people are hung up on themselves and on their own subjective perceptions. They're incapable of taking a step back and looking at anything objectively because they operate on a strictly subjective platform. Their very behavior betrays the arguments they make.

If a person's bottom line premise is that there is no design in the universe, and that it's all random, then they are by their own admission random particles operating in a sytem that itself consists of random particles. Because you either have design, or not. You either have randomness, or not. Logically, you can't have both because that's contradictory. If the main frame is random, then the details must be random also. There is either a system, or there isn't.

Now these very selfsame people step on some platform publicly, driven by some subjective sense of self and conviction, and they begin to tear everything down that they don't agree with.

To what end?

What's their problem?

Because if you call them on what they actually believe, you will find that they actually stand for ... nothing. Even science itself, to them is only a tool to pull into their own nothingness of belief. They will use "science" (which has no opinion and is morally neutral and can only present what exists) as some undergirding premise of their personal philosophy. When their personal philosophy is built on ... nothing.

They believe in no God. They believe in no afterlife. They believe in nothing. And they suck down everything around them into their personal vortex of nothingness.

Now there is a term for that, and that is "nihilism." That is from the Latin word "nihil" which is translated into English as "nothing."

And so if anybody comes and tears everything around them down and attacks everything around them that they don't agree with out of their subjective nothingness, then you have to help them understand what it is they actually stand for. You have to help them scrutinize their own views and show them for what they actually are.

We stand for something very concrete. We stand for God and for Jesus and for objective truth. That is something. And something, is greater than nothing.

How bout them apples?

[Bandit]

Atheists - do they exist?

Yes, who do you think is at the controls of all those flying saucers?

[HisLeast]

The out and out denial that atheists exist, is in my mind one of the worst intellectual offenses of the modern church. I wish half as much time was spent thinking about their arguments as is spent building weird logical sounding loopholes to tell people that they don't think what they clearly feel that they do. Not only that, but if atheists performed the same mental gymnastics to tell the church that they don't really believe in God, then watch the caterwauling, diaper filling, and calls of persecution commence.

Furthermore, not all atheists are antagonizers. The atheist doesn't NEED to hate God in order to be an atheist, but the church insists it must be so because it sure makes it easier not having to deal with them that way. Most of my atheist peers can be more calm, rational, and level headed when talking about God than all of Christendom can on topics such as circumcision and the necessity of water baptism for salvation.

If you aren't good at engaging atheists, there's nothing wrong with that. If you hate atheists... fine, whatever. But if either of these is true, perhaps its best simply not to provide commentary on them. Inevitably this commentary never stays "in house" and that ultimately makes life more difficult for those who actually reach out to them.

[HisLeast]

...or we can sit and have a nice cathartic name calling fest at atheist expense.

That'd be fun too.

[Dani H]

I wasn't calling anybody any names. I was getting at the fact that just because somebody calls themselves something, doesn't mean that is what is really going on with them or how their thought process works.

I don't hate atheists, or nihilists, or whoever. Where do you see me hating on anybody?

Fact is, I was once a nihilist myself and it's something I used to struggle with for years before salvation, and so I opened this thread more out of curiosity and to share my personal viewpoints in light of recent thoughts and prayers to help others out who are scratching their heads at how to engage people like that fruitfully. If you had addressed me back then as an atheist, I would have told you to take a hike, even though from the outside, I sure looked like one, even though I was actually a functional deist but couldn't figure out how to connect to God and so I shoved Him in the back of my head and turned my back on the church/religion as an exercise in futility. I was that subjective vortex of nothingness I am addressing in this thread. I just couldn't put my finger on it, and nobody told me, and their approaches didn't work because they dind't "get it."

Fact is, there is nihilistic deists and nihilistic non-deists out there. I went from deist to non-deist and then to salvation, like that. But even as a deist, I was a nihilist. Because I believed in nothing. I had no concept of God even though I was raised in church. Problem? I think so!

But you see, God got it. He gave me exactly what I needed, and addressed me at the point of my deepest issue, and gave me something to hold on to, and that is what He used to bring me into the Kingdom.

But I think it's easier to label everyone "atheist" and use the one-size-fits all approach, and so those who don't respond to that approach, well, too bad for them.

No, not too bad for them. They deserve Jesus too. Just like I did, just like you do.

[HisLeast]

As has been noted they betray themselves by arguing against that which they claim does not exist.

As opposed to what?

[HisLeast]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="purple"]I wasn't calling anybody any names. I was getting at the fact that just because somebody calls themselves something, doesn't mean that is what is really going on with them or how their thought process works.

I don't hate atheists, or nihilists, or whoever. Where do you see me hating on anybody?

I was using "you" in the general sense, not the specific sense. Are you telling me that you don't see any atheist bashing in this thread, or any hair splitting to show atheists don't really have atheist beliefs?

[decrumpit]

I actually meet a good amount of atheists and have spent time engaging them.

Some make the claim to say there is no God. This is strong atheism, and they usually give the argument from evil so as to suggest the Abrahamic God does not exist.

Some say they are practical atheists - meaning that they don't think about God, have no need for him, don't think they need salvation, but most importantly "have no reason or evidence to believe".

I've engaged all types. If you have a question, I can probably help if you want to share the Gospel with them.