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Thread: Behemoth [maturity warning]

  1. #1

    Behemoth [maturity warning]

    I've been doing a bit of reading in Job, and there was one thing I found somewhat humorous, yet also interesting, to share. However, the topic delves into "mature" subject matter, so please take your own sensitivity into consideration before continuing onward. (Trust me; one wouldn't think there is anything particularly "mature" regarding the behemoth... but we'll get there.)

    I place this here under Bible Chat because, after all, this is a discussion on the Bible, and a matter of interpretation. This is really an issue of non-importance, but it's an interesting issue nonetheless, which is why I place it here for consideration.

    Regarding the behemoth, there are two common conclusions regarding its identity. First, it is often assumed to be a hippopotamus. The second, however, is that it is a dinosaur. This seems to be a belief I run into more and more in the Christian circles I traverse, but I'm not entirely sure what the more common belief is in Christendom as a whole. But, if Answers In Genesis is an accurate summary of the majority, it's one I would like to challenge in the following exegesis.


    __________________________


    The behemoth is found in Job 40.15-24, where God seeks to challenge Job. Many of the descriptors found in this passage are readily comparable to the hippopotamus, but a few specific statements cause others to believe that the text is instead referring to a brachiosaurus. One of the most commonly cited reasons is found in Job 40.17, which is commonly translated as something similar to the following: "​​​​​​​He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together." [ESV] This verse, it is claimed, shows that the behemoth's tail is as big as a cedar tree, and hence could not be a hippo's tail. Likewise there is verse 24, which says that the behemoth cannot be captured; hippos have been, dinosaurs have not been.

    But even these simple reasons I find room to challenge. So here are the following reasons as to why I believe the behemoth may be a hippopotamus.

    First. Several of his habits and bodily features are immediately comparable to the hippo. He eats grass similar to an ox. [15] He has incredible strength in his body. [16] He has very strong limbs. [18] His skin is quite tough. [19]

    Second. His dwelling place is near rivers, and marshes. [21, 23] He is able to stand firm against the river's current. [23] Again, this readily matches the hippo.

    Third. Verse 16 describes how the behemoth's power is in his "navel". The Hebrew word used here is shariyr, which is given as "cord" [Mickelson]. It is derived from the word shor, which specifically means "a string, i.e. the umbilical cord" [Mickelson] or "umbilical cord, navel, navel-string" [BDB]. I do not believe that the Bible is a scientific treatise, but it would be odd to find a statement that a dinosaur (being a reptile, which is born from an egg and has no umbilical cord, nor navel) should be described as having a "navel".

    Fourth. In verse 24, God asks Job, "Can one take him by his eyes, or pierce his nose with a snare?" This, as stated above, is a common objection to the behemoth being a hippopotamus, and that it is instead actually a dinosaur. But it would be an unnecessarily over-literalization of the question to insist that God is claiming that no one has ever or will ever overcome the behemoth. For one, it would be contradictory to James 3.7, where the Apostle states that "every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind".

    So which is it? Has the behemoth been overcome by man or not? This leads to the conclusion that God's questions towards Job are strictly rhetorical, not word-for-word factual. For instance, in Job 39.1, God asks Job, "Do you know when the mountain goats give birth? Do you observe the calving of the does?" Obviously men had already and have since observed mountain goats give birth, and have kept track of their pregnancies. The point is that, what man (being finite) struggles to do, God (being infinite) does effortlessly.

    Hence, God is not claiming that man had never and could never overcome the behemoth, but merely that what man struggled to do (overcome the behemoth), God could do with ease if he so chose to do. Hence, the behemoth could yet be the hippopotamus.

    Fifth. The behemoth is not described as being terribly large in size. It is big, but not monstrous. Verses 21-23 present him as relatively squat. He is able to be shaded by lotus plants, and he is able to hide between marsh reeds. Also, the "Jordan rushes against his mouth". Even if he was a dinosaur, the behemoth certainly would not be a brachiosaurus; his face is regularly level with the river-water or marsh-water, which is far more fitting of the hippo.

    Sixth. The common English rendition of verse 17 is quite misleading, to say the least. I will provide here the ESV translation:
    ​​​​​​​He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together. [ESV]
    There are several issues to pique here. The first is one that should be most obvious. The text is not describing the size of the behemoth's tail as being "like a cedar". It is describing the action of "stiffening" the tail "like a cedar". If I describe a friend's acne as being as pimpley as as basketball, it would be a huge error for someone to interpret me as claiming my friend's face as a whole is as big as a basketball as well. Nothing in the text requires that the behemoth's tail be as big as a cedar tree, only that it is able to stiffen it like a cedar tree.

    Seventh. However (and here comes the "mature" part), another issue seems to be that "tail" is not the best interpretation of the Hebrew text. Before we directly address that, let's first turn to the second line of the text: "the sinews of his thighs are knit together". What the ESV gives here as "thighs", is the Hebrew word pachad. It means "testicle", "as a cause of shame" [Mickelson].

    Now, there is a common aspect of Hebrew poetry we recognize as parallelism. Meaning, two consecutive lines in a poem or poetic statement contain the same message. That is, Line 1 gives such-and-such statement, and Line 2 repeats it in another way. We find this parallelism evident in the preceding and following verses of Job 40.17. Verse 16 contains two parallel lines that describe the behemoth's bodily strength, and verse 18 contains two parallel lines that describe the behemoth's limbs.

    Verse 17 also contains parallelism. The second line of this verse refers to the behemoth's testicles. (The KJV renders it as "stones"...) As such, we should expect that the first line contain a parallel element, which the Hebrew calls the "tail". Biologically, what element of the (male) body is parallel to the testicles? It appears, then, that the Hebrew is calling this male appendage a "tail" only in euphemism. (Deuteronomy 23.1 calls this male appendage a "pipe" in euphemism.)

    Eighth. Lastly, there is a particular verb at issue in verse 17, the Hebrew chaphets. In every other instance in the Bible, this verb translates to "delight" or "pleasure" or something related. In this one case, for no reason at all, most English translations give it as "to move" or "to bend".

    To recap the previous points: The second line of verse 17's parallelism directly refers to the behemoth's testicles. The first line refers to a "tail"-like appendage that, as we see here in Point 8, is a "delight" to the behemoth; a "tail"-like appendage that becomes stiff like a cedar tree.

    In no way to be crude, but I think it's obvious that what is being described to us, this "tail"-like appendage, which is parallel to the testicles, which the behemoth takes "pleasure" in, is not really a tail.

    Conclusion. Everything in the text readily indicates that a hippopotamus is being described. Nothing here can really be stated to resemble a "dinosaur", but all of it can easily be corresponded to a hippopotamus.

  2. #2
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    This is amazingly thoughtful and scholarly! Thanks for sharing.

  3. #3
    That was really interesting and the best explanation I have ever seen for one way or the other and as I feel it most likely wasn't a dinosaur, I found it very informative the way you broke it down like that. I would give you reps if I could, but I am not allowed to give them to you right now, I have to spread it around.

  4. #4
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    I agree completely. I think the visual is tough for some people - hippos look like fat, comical tubs of blubber - but in fact the hippo is one of the most dangerous and aggressive animals on the face of the earth. They are responsible for over 200 human deaths per year even in this modern age. They are very territorial, and are known to sink boats that venture too close. They are even absurdly quick for their size on land. They have razor-sharp tusks that they sway back and forth (like a sword) when attacking.

    It is no wonder the ancient Near Easterners would regard the hippo with respect, or that it would be called out in the poetic text in Job.

  5. #5
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    I believe I've heard something like this before. I agree as well; great post explaining it all. Now, what about the Leviathan?
    The happiness of the godly is only begun in this world. - Caspar Olevian

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    I believe that Behemoth is a type of human that is different from the rest.

    The scripture shows that he speaks. It shows that he is within the society of the human race.


    Look closely at the rest of the description.


    19Out of his mouth go
    burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. (words)

    20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

    21His breath kindleth
    coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

    22In his neck remaineth
    strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. (He is an Impath)

    23The flakes of his flesh
    are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

    24His heart is as firm as
    a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

    25When he raiseth up
    himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves. (He can speak the word of God)

    26The sword of him that
    layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

    27He esteemeth iron as
    straw, and brass as rotten wood.

    28The arrow cannot make
    him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

    29Darts are counted as
    stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. (He thinks that threats are funny)

    30Sharp stones are
    under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

    31He maketh the deep to
    boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. (This shows knowledge in science)

    32He maketh a path to
    shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. (He teaches good things everywhere he goes)

    33Upon earth there is not
    his like, who is made without fear. (All animals have fear)
    34He beholdeth all high
    things: he is a king over all the children of pride. (the children of pride, would be refering to human nature)

    I just wanted to throw this out there.

    In highschool we were asked to do a drawing of the balance between good and evil.

    I basically drew Behemoth, before I had even learned that part of the scripture

    http://jegej17.deviantart.com/galler...set=24#/dm05un

  8. #8
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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Hmmm "Delightful" essay/study.

    Well written
    I didnt know the link didnt work

  9. #9
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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    That was really interesting (as was your post about the Leviathan). Thanks for sharing it.

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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    I've been doing a bit of reading in Job, and there was one thing I found somewhat humorous, yet also interesting, to share. However, the topic delves into "mature" subject matter, so please take your own sensitivity into consideration before continuing onward. (Trust me; one wouldn't think there is anything particularly "mature" regarding the behemoth... but we'll get there.)

    I place this here under Bible Chat because, after all, this is a discussion on the Bible, and a matter of interpretation. This is really an issue of non-importance, but it's an interesting issue nonetheless, which is why I place it here for consideration.

    Regarding the behemoth, there are two common conclusions regarding its identity. First, it is often assumed to be a hippopotamus. The second, however, is that it is a dinosaur. This seems to be a belief I run into more and more in the Christian circles I traverse, but I'm not entirely sure what the more common belief is in Christendom as a whole. But, if Answers In Genesis is an accurate summary of the majority, it's one I would like to challenge in the following exegesis.


    __________________________
    I see this scripture in a different light.

    I believe the key verse is 19, "He is chief of the ways of God:--." I believe this eliminates him down to one person, Satan.

    Ezekiel 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of widom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering , the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: thy workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth: and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God: thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

    Behemoth means large beast, and here it says this beast is chief of the ways of God. In Genesis we see that Satan is more subtle than any beast of the field. In Job chapter 40 verse 20 we see behemoth where all the beasts of the field play. And in 21 he lies under the shady trees, and in 22 the shady trees cover him with their shadow. Compare these verses with those in Ezekiel 31 we see the Assyrian who is described as a cedar tree who was in the garden of God (Ezekiel 31;8, a tree to be desired above the others, and the beasts of the field played under his branches (Ezekiel31:6).

    When you consider the relationship between God the Father, and God the Son, that often what they do is interchangeable, like the Son created all things, and the Father created all things, and we see they are not always distinguishable, and then you look a the trinity of Satan, the Dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet, neither are they distinquishable.

    We see in Daniel, that Nebuchandnezzar was made into a beast which ate grass like an oxen because of his pride. In Daniel we also see the picture of the cedar tree that grew and the beasts of the field had shadow under it. And then when we see that tree cut down the stump is left with a band of iron and brass Daniel 4:11-15. We see that behemoth has a tail of cedar and his bones are like that stump in Daniel as strong as iron and brass.

    Then consider that the tail of cedar is from the cedar of Ezekiel who was in Eden in the Garden of God. And then consider that it was the tail of the dragon that drew the third part of the stars from heaven. Also consider that the Dragon gave power to the beast, and leviathan is a great dragon (Isaiah 27:1). When in Job it says his strength is in his loins, I believe that it is referring to his fruit or offspring. Those that serve Satan.

    In Job 40:23 when it says he trusts that he can draw of Jordan you have to remember that Satan sends a flood after the woman in Revelation 12:15-16.

    Just my thoughts on behemoth.

  11. #11
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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    I think you are right. Also, it cannot be a dinosaur plainly because they are said to be millions of years old (extinct) - therefore I doubt if it would have been known or described in detail, in Job's time - right?

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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Quote Originally Posted by HisWill View Post
    I think you are right. Also, it cannot be a dinosaur plainly because they are said to be millions of years old (extinct) - therefore I doubt if it would have been known or described in detail, in Job's time - right?
    I believe that the earth is less than six thousand years old. Carbon dating only works if radiation was always at a constant level. I believe in a young earth. They just found a crocodile in Indonesia that was in excess of twenty feet and over two thousand pounds. Since crocodiles do not stop growing, how big would one get if it lived for six hundred years, since Adam lived over nine hundred?

    Crocodiles are not chief of the ways of God. I believe the description of behemoth is a metaphor, just as the description of the Assyrian as a cedar tree was given to us in Ezekiel chapter 31.

  13. #13

    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Hello Markedwards,

    I am writing a book whose second chapter is on the Hippo as described in Job 40:15ff. I like what you have written, finding it to accord with what I also have found. And so I wish to give you my thanks for this good work. If I were to reference you and your work, could you give me a good citation of this, or a statement of your background?

    Gratefully,

    Cal
    Calvin B. DeWitt

  14. #14
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    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Mark no longer visits this site.
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  15. #15

    Re: Behemoth [maturity warning]

    Hippoes don't live near the river Jordan.

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