should we suffer more?

[Warrior4God]

I'm always hearing Christians say things like, "We're not to live a life of ease and comfort in this world. We're called to suffer for Christ's sake," and "Suffering and trials strengthen us as believers." Ok. If this is so, I have a question and I'm not being sarcastic in asking it, either. If suffering is so "good" for Christians because there's "benefits" to it, then it should stand to reason that the more we suffer the better off we are, right? Then why aren't we going out of our way to make ourselves as absolutely miserable as possible? For instance, why not get rid of everything we own, be homeless, and quit eating? That would be quite a bit of suffering for most people, don't you think?

[-SEEKING-]

I'm always hearing Christians say things like, "We're not to live a life of ease and comfort in this world. We're called to suffer for Christ's sake," and "Suffering and trials strengthen us as believers." Ok. If this is so, I have a question and I'm not being sarcastic in asking it, either. If suffering is so "good" for Christians because there's "benefits" to it, then it should stand to reason that the more we suffer the better off we are, right? Then why aren't we going out of our way to make ourselves as absolutely miserable as possible? For instance, why not get rid of everything we own, be homeless, and quit eating? That would be quite a bit of suffering for most people, don't you think?

I seriously doubt that by putting myself and my family to suffer I'm really going to be helping anybody. I'm blessed so I can bless others. If I'm made to suffer.............

[Warrior4God]

One of the things that frustrates me when Christians say things like, "We're not to live a life of ease in this life. Pleasure is not what we are to seek," is when it comes from wealthy Christians who have a huge house, nice cars, a boat, a summer cabin, electronics, etc. If that's how they really feel, then they need to give most of their money away and keep just enough to live a modest and simple life. Otherwise, it's just empty talk to try to sound more spiritual than they really are. I personally see nothing wrong with enjoying your wealth, but at least be honest about it. Don't try to pass off phony humility as genuine. I would totally respect a wealthy Christian who's honest and says, "Hey, I enjoy my stuff and the things money can get me, but it won't buy me into Heaven and I make sure I spread the wealth to those less fortunate than myself." That's more credible than somebody that says, "Money means nothing to me. Heck, I can just give it all away and I would be happier without it," and yet keeps buying all kinds of nice things and doesn't give their money away. That's spiritual phoniness. Also, as Christians, let's be real about something. It's not natural to find value in suffering. Sometimes, something positive comes out of suffering, but not always. Sometimes, suffering is just suffering. As a Christian, I know that suffering, whether minor or major, is something I have to contend with in this life, but I'm not going out of my way to look for the opportunity to immerse myself in it. I will also do everything I can to avoid it, though I know my efforts will not always succeed. When it inevitably comes and there's no getting away from it, then I'll deal with it. If I gain something from it, great. My main goal is just to get through it as best and as quickly as I can.

[lovex]

One of the things that frustrates me when Christians say things like, "We're not to live a life of ease in this life. Pleasure is not what we are to seek," is when it comes from wealthy Christians who have a huge house, nice cars, a boat, a summer cabin, electronics, etc. If that's how they really feel, then they need to give most of their money away and keep just enough to live a modest and simple life. Otherwise, it's just empty talk to try to sound more spiritual than they really are. I personally see nothing wrong with enjoying your wealth, but at least be honest about it. Don't try to pass off phony humility as genuine. I would totally respect a wealthy Christian who's honest and says, "Hey, I enjoy my stuff and the things money can get me, but it won't buy me into Heaven and I make sure I spread the wealth to those less fortunate than myself." That's more credible than somebody that says, "Money means nothing to me. Heck, I can just give it all away and I would be happier without it," and yet keeps buying all kinds of nice things and doesn't give their money away. That's spiritual phoniness. Also, as Christians, let's be real about something. It's not natural to find value in suffering. Sometimes, something positive comes out of suffering, but not always. Sometimes, suffering is just suffering. As a Christian, I know that suffering, whether minor or major, is something I have to contend with in this life, but I'm not going out of my way to look for the opportunity to immerse myself in it. I will also do everything I can to avoid it, though I know my efforts will not always succeed. When it inevitably comes and there's no getting away from it, then I'll deal with it. If I gain something from it, great. My main goal is just to get through it as best and as quickly as I can.

Yes yes yes... you just read my mind. It's funny when you see people who wear $100 dollar jeans and claim that they want nothing to do with money. We need to consider suffering and trials as pure joy because it produces endurance.. and God will make us perfect through suffering, so I think it's a benefit wihen we do .

[Dani H]

There is a difference between self-inflicted "suffering," and suffering for the sake of the Gospel. You can be wealthy and be persecuted and put to death for the Gospel just as easily as a poor person in certain countries where there is heavy persecution. That kind of suffering doesn't take worldly standing into account whatsoever, so why would we twist it around and say that it does?

People who choose to give away what they have and live a far more modest lifestyle by choice so they can give more, aren't suffering. Well, they shouldn't be. Because it is more blessed to give than to receive, so whoever lives that way, should be just dandy.

[Equipped_4_Love]

I'm with you Dani. People living a modest life in America are not suffering. If you want to see real suffering, try visiting a third world country.

Anyhow, regarding suffering - the Bible does talk about sharing in the sufferings of Christ....the fellowship of Christ's sufferings, I believe it says. I really don't see this as applying to just physical suffering, but also emotional suffering and anguish, also. When we experience these types of sufferings, we grow closer to Jesus because our sufferings cause us to cling to Him. I think that a lot of people equate suffering with not having the necessities of life, or being in some horrible physical illness. The thing is, though, I have seen people in very poor conditions with absolute joy, while people who seem to have it all are just miserable and empty. I guess it all depends on where your priorities lie.

Someone who has all the luxuries of life, but has no family or anyone to love, is more than likely experiencing a lot more deep suffering than those who may be scraping out a living, but are happy because they have a happy family who truly love one another.

It just seems like a lot of people equate suffering with the physical needs. There is also a lot of silent suffering that people keep hidden, due to past trauma or whatever, and no one would really know that person is suffering -- but Jesus does.

I think the way that we get joy out of our sufferings and trials really depends upon what we do with them. If we surrender them to Christ, and allow Him to use them to mold and shape us, then there is that joy that results. Trials can either break us down, or build us up.

[Equipped_4_Love]

I just realized that I went way off-topic with that last post, so let me re-iterate.

I'm really not sure if Christ has really called any Christian to a life of self-indulgence. You ask why all Christians don't just live in a cardboard box somewhere -- well, I honestly think that God blesses som Chritians so that they can bless others. This doesn't mean a life of self-indulgence, but that they are to be wise stewards with the abundance that God has given them. I really don't see how effective Christians could be if all of us were homeless and had no resources whatsoever.

God gives us resources so that we may use them to further His kingdom. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where God calls all Christians to suffer. A lot of times, suffering is part of the Christian experience, and that's how we grow, but even so, the Bible doesn't give the indication that every Christian will have a life of hardship and toil. It does say that all Christians are to take up thir cross and follow Jesus, but that has more to do with self-sacrifice than suffering, I think.

[Warrior4God]

I'm with you Dani. People living a modest life in America are not suffering. If you want to see real suffering, try visiting a third world country.

I agree that living a modest economic life in America isn't suffering. I didn't mean to give people this impression in my post. I know that many people in other countries are way worse off. Relatively very few people in the United States know what real hardship is. I was just trying to make a side point that I dislike when some wealthy Christians say that money doesn't mean anything to them when they live like it actually does. Again, if a Christian has money, I am cool with them buying nice things and enjoying their money, in addition to helping others with it. I just don't want them to pretend to others that it's a burden to have a nice house, several cars, trips around the globe, home theater systems, etc. They don't have to buy these things to successfully live in this life if they really think having money and things is so wrong. If they really think having lots of money is sinful, they can give most of it away and live very humbly. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be willing to help take their "burden" from them. Like I said earlier, sometimes suffering in life does bring about something positive. I don't think it's always the case, though. Sometimes you just have to endure the misery the best that you can. For some, that may be the only positive they gain; the ability to endure other hardships a little bit better.

[Warrior4God]

God gives us resources so that we may use them to further His kingdom. I don't see anywhere in Scripture where God calls all Christians to suffer. A lot of times, suffering is part of the Christian experience, and that's how we grow, but even so, the Bible doesn't give the indication that every Christian will have a life of hardship and toil. It does say that all Christians are to take up thir cross and follow Jesus, but that has more to do with self-sacrifice than suffering, I think.

I agree with this. I just want to add, though, that some Christians need to take this to heart. Some Christians, likely mostly out of jealousy, outwardly condemn wealthy Christians for having lots of money. Not because of doing anything immoral with it, but simply for having it. They say things like, "True Christians shouldn't be concerned with the pleasures of this life." I think that's a crock. Are we not to enjoy this life, at least somewhat, while we're here? If not, then why did God make our bodies and minds able to enjoy things? The smell of a rose. The beautiful colors of a sunset. The taste of a good meal. The touch of another's hand. The sound of good music. I think some Christians just become too legalistic in misguided zeal by condemning anything in this physical existence that is pleasurable, even if it's not actually sinful. They try to convince others that the more you deny yourself things, even good things that God intentionally created for our enjoyment, the more "holy" and "spiritual" you'll be. It's kind of sad, actually.

[Slug1]

I agree with this. I just want to add, though, that some Christians need to take this to heart. Some Christians, likely mostly out of jealousy, outwardly condemn wealthy Christians for having lots of money. Not because of doing anything immoral with it, but simply for having it. They say things like, "True Christians shouldn't be concerned with the pleasures of this life." I think that's a crock. Are we not to enjoy this life, at least somewhat, while we're here? If not, then why did God make our bodies and minds able to enjoy things? The smell of a rose. The beautiful colors of a sunset. The taste of a good meal. The touch of another's hand. The sound of good music. I think some Christians just become too legalistic in misguided zeal by condemning anything in this physical existence that is pleasurable, even if it's not actually sinful. They try to convince others that the more you deny yourself things, even good things that God intentionally created for our enjoyment, the more "holy" and "spiritual" you'll be. It's kind of sad, actually.

I agree with what you say here.