Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Is forgivness of sin not instant or do we have to wait? How do we apply the following scripture?Originally Posted by Brother Mark
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If all is forgiven what sin could be hidden, and who would it be hidden from?
Firstfruits
As righteous as Christ.
Then is this scripture wrong?
1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
NASU
Even John included himself in that passage where he said "If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves..."
It is deceptive for one to say he has no sin according to what is written.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
It is not wrong that is why it states "if we confess our sins"
1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Once Jesus has cleansed us from sin if we say we have sin what are we saying about the blood of Jesus?
Firstfruits
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Let us look at a similar example when discussing the issue of sin. The Israelites were set free from their captor (Egypt) and freely given salvation from that which would hold them in bondage. However, when it came to their land that God had given them, God states that he would hand over the inhabitants into their hand one by one and it would be their responsibility to drive them out. God even stated that He would not hand the inhabitants over to them at the same time but rather gradually over time as they increased.
Exodus 23:29-31
I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become desolate and the beasts of the field become too numerous for you. Little by little I will drive them out from before you, until you have increased, and you inherit the land. And I will set your bounds from the Red Sea to the sea, Philistia, and from the desert to the River. For I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you.
Take Paul, for instance, in Romans 7. Paul did not have victory over his sin immediately even though in his heart he despised it. Paul's issue was not that he was unsaved or that he was an enemy of God. No, he was God's child who needed deliverance. As Romans 7 declares, Paul would eventually find his deliverance through abiding in and seeking the Deliverer Christ Jesus.
Now, a person really has to worry if in their heart they no longer find a struggle. Look at the Israelites, for example. We find with them that many in their hearts turned back toward Egypt. Many of them desired rather to be back in Egypt than to go toward God's plan for them. If a believer decides in their heart that they no longer want to keep the faith then they are apostate and will die in the wilderness. However, if a believer perserveres and continues to battle the enemy through seeking our Lord then he will eventually overcome and find victory over whatever is inhabiting his/her land.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
As righteous as Christ.
Can the man after confessing ever say "I have no sin"? John didn't think so. However, he could say he was forgiven. There's a difference. And he is clean. God will grow him as he has all believers and there is no reason for willful sins. We can overcome all he has pointed out. There are things he holds back as Jesus said "There are things I long to tell you but you are not yet ready". When we mature, he deals with us and our sin even more.
VR makes a valid point above. He doesn't deal with it all at once lest we become overrun because we don't know how to fortify. Then it's on to the next one that God points out.
Even the believer who is cleanes, as John was, must say... 1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
NASU
Was John prayed up when he penned those words? You bet! He was full of the Holy Spirit, yet he included himself in the "we" and in "having sin". He knew he had not arrived.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Whether we overcome or not the message from Paul is clear.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
According to the scripture we are clean through the word.
Jn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Do we then say " no we are not"
Do we say that the blood of Jesus does not wash away all unrighteousness?
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Firstfruits
By His Stripes I'm Healed
If Paul does not teach this we do not overcome. Paul is giving a road map to deliverance here. Without growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord we do not increase. If we do not increase we will not find victory over the things the devil is trying to draw us into.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
As righteous as Christ.
Of course I am clean! And I still have sin. Both are true. I will not deny either of the verses!!!! Do I have wilful sin? Not at the moment! But I am sure that the Lord will dig deeper and reveal to me yet another area where my self life is alive and well and in need of crucifixion. It's there. He just hasn't revealed it yet. When he does, it will be dealt with as all the other sins were dealt with, through the overcoming blood of Jesus.
Babies mess their diapers. Grown ups don't. We grow in truth and in grace and in overcoming. I don't expect babies to walk in the same way that adults walk. Spiritual fathers have overcome things that young men are battling while babies are rejoicing that their sins are forgiven.
Was John clean when he wrote...
1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
NASU
Yes he was. But he still acknowledged that he had sin.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
So when we are told that we are washed and sanctified, what are we washed/sanctified from?
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
If we say Jesus has cleansed us from all sin/unrighteousness how can we say we still have sin? Note that I am not saying that we do not have the ability to yeild to sin, but that means not yeilding to God.
Firstfruits
I live here!
Even adults are dirtied by the work of living in a world of sin, and need a cleaning from time to time.
Jesus understood that in John 16.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
If we continue to sin then it means we cannot cease from sin.
2 Pet 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
We are only dirtied by being disobedient to the will of God by doing iniquity.
Firstfruits
I live here!
I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.
As righteous as Christ.
I guess John was wrong when he used the pronoun "we" in writing the following verse.
1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
NASU
Yet, we see that even the spirit filled apostle who was writing at God's prompting, chose to include himself in that present tense moment of "if we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves". I can't get around either the verses that say we can overcome sin nor the ones that say we still have sin. We can overcome sin. But as John says, if "we say we have no sin, we are deceived. As it is written...
Can we overcome? Of course. Does the believer have to sin? Nope. We have complete freedom in Christ and can overcome all sin that God convicts of us and points out to us.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
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