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Thread: Shall We Continue In Sin? God Forbid!!!!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    Is forgivness of sin not instant or do we have to wait? How do we apply the following scripture?

    1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    If all is forgiven what sin could be hidden, and who would it be hidden from?
    You apparently didn't read his post carefully. He didn't say forgiveness of sin is not instant, he said that sanctification does not occur the moment we are saved. That takes time. Time that your doctrine doesn't allow because your doctrine expects people to immediately become mature Christians upon becoming saved. You don't seem to have any understanding of the concept of people being newborn babes in Christ who are beginning their journey of growing in Christ. What does it mean to you when scripture speaks of people as newborn babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1, 1 Peter 2:2)? Do babies immediately become mature adults?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    Because God told them what would happen if they were driven out of the land before Israel had grown and were able to look after the land.

    Firstfruits
    Precisely! This is what maturing in Christ is all about, and this is why Paul refers to those carnal Christians in Corinth as babes in Christ when they were struggling with sin. They needed to mature so that the inhabitants in their land could be driven out.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Precisely! This is what maturing in Christ is all about, and this is why Paul refers to those carnal Christians in Corinth as babes in Christ when they were struggling with sin. They needed to mature so that the inhabitants in their land could be driven out.
    Exactly. I have pointed out 1 Cor 3 to him before and how his doctrine does not allow for such a thing as babes in Christ who are struggling with sin and need to learn how to grow in their faith. In his doctrine those babes in Christ could not be in Christ at all because they had sinned. In his doctrine they would be former Christians who lost their salvation rather than the babes in Christ that Paul said they were.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    You apparently didn't read his post carefully. He didn't say forgiveness of sin is not instant, he said that sanctification does not occur the moment we are saved. That takes time. Time that your doctrine doesn't allow because your doctrine expects people to immediately become mature Christians upon becoming saved. You don't seem to have any understanding of the concept of people being newborn babes in Christ who are beginning their journey of growing in Christ. What does it mean to you when scripture speaks of people as newborn babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1, 1 Peter 2:2)? Do babies immediately become mature adults?
    So if a new born babe does not walk in the word and continues to sin knowing that God forbids it, where do they stand with God?

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    What do we say, do we say we did not know? Will God give that sinner a chance to inherit Heaven even though they have committed iniquity?

    Where do we draw the line, with sin?

    Firstfruits

  5. #65
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    Would anyone know what I was talking about if I said that the game of football isn't about the penalties? Why this constant focus on the penalties (sin)? The object of the game of football isn't about the avoidance of penalties. If it were, the winner of the game would be the team who sat on the bench the whole time. The question isn't, are we avoiding penalties? The proper question is, are we moving closer to the goal line?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Precisely! This is what maturing in Christ is all about, and this is why Paul refers to those carnal Christians in Corinth as babes in Christ when they were struggling with sin. They needed to mature so that the inhabitants in their land could be driven out.
    How do you get that from that scripture? Are you saying that God will allow sin to remain leaving that person at risk?

    God say he will not allow the enemy to remain incase he causes Israel to sin.

    Ex 23:33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

    God does not want his people to sin. (God Forbid)!!!!

    Firstfruits

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroRog View Post
    Would anyone know what I was talking about if I said that the game of football isn't about the penalties? Why this constant focus on the penalties (sin)? The object of the game of football isn't about the avoidance of penalties. If it were, the winner of the game would be the team who sat on the bench the whole time. The question isn't, are we avoiding penalties? The proper question is, are we moving closer to the goal line?
    According to Jesus the game is about avoidance of sin (penalties)

    Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Lk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

    2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    Firstfruits

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    How do you get that from that scripture? Are you saying that God will allow sin to remain leaving that person at risk?

    God say he will not allow the enemy to remain incase he causes Israel to sin.

    Ex 23:33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

    God does not want his people to sin. (God Forbid)!!!!

    Firstfruits
    Of course they kicked them out. But it didn't happen overnight FF. That's what maturing is about. The mind must be renewed. Just as Peter's feet needed washing, but he was clean, so too Israel was free from Pharaoh, but their land still had invaders in it. The invaders had to be kicked out.

    When Israel left Egypt, God knocked 2 kings in the head right away. When people get saved, generally, 1 or 2 major sins get dealt with immediately. But as they mature in the Lord, and take their land, then the rest of the sins get dealt with.

    Just as Peter didn't know he would deny Christ, nor did John know it was wrong to rain fire down from heaven, we too struggle with things we are not aware of. As we grow in the Lord, and as we camp around Sinai and learn about God, in the desert that God leads us to, we then are prepared to take the Jerico of wrong anger, and the Ai of coveteousness, and so on.

    Grace to you,

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    So if a new born babe does not walk in the word and continues to sin knowing that God forbids it, where do they stand with God?
    Now you're talking about continuing to sin which would be a case of them making a practice of sinning without making any effort to grow in the faith. That's another story. I wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about your belief that they lose their salvation if they sin even once. You've made it clear that is what you believe. I think you need to reconsider that belief. How do you reconcile that belief with 1 Cor 3:1-3?

    Keep in mind that I'm not at all saying that we are free to sin as much as we want. If we are not pursuing holiness and godliness something is wrong with us. People with that kind of attitude need to read passages like Hebrews 10:26-27 and Hebrews 3:10-12. But what I am saying is that God is gracious and Jesus is our advocate and it's not the case that God doesn't give us time to grow in our faith and allow us to stumble a bit along the way as we learn how to walk in the Spirit.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Of course they kicked them out. But it didn't happen overnight FF. That's what maturing is about. The mind must be renewed. Just as Peter's feet needed washing, but he was clean, so too Israel was free from Pharaoh, but their land still had invaders in it. The invaders had to be kicked out.

    When Israel left Egypt, God knocked 2 kings in the head right away. When people get saved, generally, 1 or 2 major sins get dealt with immediately. But as they mature in the Lord, and take their land, then the rest of the sins get dealt with.

    Just as Peter didn't know he would deny Christ, nor did John know it was wrong to rain fire down from heaven, we too struggle with things we are not aware of. As we grow in the Lord, and as we camp around Sinai and learn about God, in the desert that God leads us to, we then are prepared to take the Jerico of wrong anger, and the Ai of coveteousness, and so on.

    Grace to you,

    Mark
    So is there a limit when should no longer continue to sin, when we should not yeild to iniquity? Because if we continue to sin are not showing immaturity?

    Firstfruits

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    According to Jesus the game is about avoidance of sin (penalties)

    Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Lk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

    2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    Firstfruits
    I thought it was about trusting in Him as our Lord and Savior and not in our own righteousness?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I thought it was about trusting in Him as our Lord and Savior and not in our own righteousness?
    And keeping his teachings.

    Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    Firstfruits

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    And keeping his teachings.

    Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
    Of course. But it takes time to learn His teachings and how to follow them, does it not? Does your doctrine allow for the time to grow in the faith and knowledge of Christ or does it say that a person loses their salvation immediately if they sin?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    So is there a limit when should no longer continue to sin, when we should not yeild to iniquity? Because if we continue to sin are not showing immaturity?

    Firstfruits
    I don't understand the question. Can you restate it?

    If it means what i think it means then I will refer back to the example with John, the son of thunder. He was wrong when he asked Jesus if Christ wanted him (John) to rain down fire from heaven on Samaria. Obviously, John didn't realize it was sin. But Jesus said "You don't know what spirit you are speaking from". But that son of thunder became the apostle of love as Jesus worked in his heart. Was John lost when he wanted to rain down fire? No. He just wasn't completely sanctified. As Jesus pointed these things out to John, he overcame them and grew in the Lord. That is the pattern set forth in scripture.

    Israel was saved and delivered from 2 kings after crossing the red sea. They had 31 kings left to conquer (1 for every day of the month) in the land. We take up our cross daily and follow him. In doing so, he will guide us and bring us to the place where we can deal with those kings that are left after coming out of Egypt.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  15. #75
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    This is simple, so I'll try to keep it simple.

    It's all about the letter "s".

    "Sin" is the diseased condition of the soul; man's fallen nature.

    "Sins" are the resulting acts of that fallen nature of the soul.

    When we, by grace through faith, trust in Jesus for salvation we receive His nature within our spirit.

    The sin nature was not eradicated from the soul; it is overcome by His Spirit in our spirit.

    Sanctification is a process; by that process the life of the Spirit in man's spirit overcomes the death of the sin nature in the
    soul.

    This is what faith believes: we are free from the power of the sin nature, though not [yet] free from the presence of the sin nature.

    It's a matter of which nature we yield to. One is dead, one is alive. We die daily.

    When scripture speaks of sin, it is the sin NATURE. When it speaks of sins, it is the telltale actions OF that sin nature.

    The Law "measured" each act. Grace "measures" the heart. Sins are the indicator of their source: sin. When sins result, we know it's the law of sin and death in our members. By grace, we can instead yield to the law of life of the spirit.

    Sin = nature
    Sins = acts OF that nature

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