Overcoming Sin

[Sirus]

When we walk by faith and believe what accompanies that?

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

That's it?
Well, if that what you believe 'seek' means fine, but that's not what the vast majority of the church believes. If it were, sin would not be the huge problem it is in the church. Believing the gospel for liberty is not seeking. So you're back to square 1.

[VerticalReality]

That's it?
Well, if that what you believe 'seek' means fine, but that's not what the vast majority of the church believes. If it were, sin would not be the huge problem it is in the church. Believing the gospel for liberty is not seeking. So you're back to square 1.

The gospel is not about religious concepts and belief systems. It's about Jesus reconciling a relationship. We can talk all day about the old man dying and being raised with Christ and all that jazz, but at the end of the day that is all a bunch of religious terminology that means being reconciled to God in order to have a relationship.

[ProjectPeter]

Paul didn't just write 1 Corinthians 15:34. He wrote up to 13 books of the New Testament. Just quoting one verse is not covering all the areas of Paul's teaching. He didn't just say stop sinning. He added a lot of information about what it means to walk in the Spirit in order to really be free of sin.

That he certainly did. In those letters... you ain't going to see all the "get to the root cause" stuff nor are you going to see where Paul says... just give it your best shot and let Jesus do the rest. What Paul says... stop sinning. Says it in a myriad of different ways too! Now and again... Paul, like Jesus, just simply spelled it out to folks and said knock it off. Thing is... Paul did write that verse and yet folks tend to think it out in left field for someone to say it today. Your post to me was an example... and you attributed it to me as if saying it made me the freak with five eyes. Thing is... it is there and you have to contend with what it actually says eh? Or ignore it as Greek that can't be understood. I suspect those are the only two options.

[ProjectPeter]

I go with Paul too!

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Did you miss that class?

BTW; the fact that you would say this in the face of 1John is just pitiful. What's your problem with "IF we sin" exactly???

Uh... hate to break it to you hoss! I was the one that introduced that passage to the discussion a while back. As to the pitiful and the ashamed comments... whatever floats your boat but I'm guessing... you aren't reading things all that closely.

[ProjectPeter]

The gospel is not about religious concepts and belief systems. It's about Jesus reconciling a relationship. We can talk all day about the old man dying and being raised with Christ and all that jazz, but at the end of the day that is all a bunch of religious terminology that means being reconciled to God in order to have a relationship.

It's not just religious terminology... it's biblical terminology. Man can make it religious sure... but you're tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Sirus]

Uh... hate to break it to you hoss! I was the one that introduced that passage to the discussion a while back.

Which passage? I posted 3 verses and mentioned a 4th. You need to spend a little more time and be specific. Do you mean 1John? Great. Then what's your problem?

All I said to Ff was

"Why do you assume someone not having victory over some sins is not serving God from the heart? If we sin we have an advocate. It doesn't say if we sin we need to get an advocate."

What's the problem with that statement? 'I'm guessing... you aren't reading things all that closely' because you then said

"Sinning saints then? Saintly sinners... Christ-like disobedient sinners? Followers of Jesus walking in sin? I mean you know... all of that seems highly problematic when held up to Scripture doesn't it?"

and nobody even indicated or implied any such description. Take a little more time. Read more closely and try not to assume and jump to conclusions your own philosophy may see.

As to the pitiful and the ashamed comments... whatever floats your boat but I'm guessing... you aren't reading things all that closely.

Like I said, I read 80% of the thread. I also did key word searches trying to make sure I didn't miss anything. If you would like to point out what I missed, please do, and I'll be more than happen to retract those statements. If not, you are making a false claim.

[Sirus]

The gospel is not about religious concepts and belief systems.

Yeah, that's exactly what my post was all about!

It's about Jesus reconciling a relationship.

That's only the beginning/part of the gospel. The gospel is not just Jesus dying for your sins. It's also believers being put into the body of Christ to be crucified, dead, buried, and raised with Christ.

We can talk all day about the old man dying and being raised with Christ and all that jazz, but at the end of the day that is all a bunch of religious terminology that means being reconciled to God in order to have a relationship.

I sure am glad God wrote all that jazz! Look, the newborn on milk is reconciled and has a relationship with God, but he's not supposed to stay there. He grows in the knowledge of Christ -what we have been freely given- and then walks in it. This is not 'reconciliation in order to have a relationship'. You have it completely backwards! It is because of reconciliation and relationship the new man can partake of the divine nature and grow and walk. Paul in Romans 7 was reconciled and in relationship but had some knowledge of Christ to learn. The fornicator in corinth was reconciled and in relationship but had some knowledge of Christ to learn. They are two completely separate things. Reconciliation and relationship is because of the blood and what Christ did for us, not because of our walk.

[Sirus]

It's not just religious terminology... it's biblical terminology. Man can make it religious sure... but you're tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

I agree "It's not just religious terminology... it's biblical terminology" but I'm curious, how can man make and experiential 'old man dying and being raised with Christ' 'religious'?

[Diggindeeper]

In post #305, the bottom line (and finishing statement) is this:

"...no desire to overcome the sin."

Some time back, this same chapter (Romans 7) and Paul "hating his sin, but not being able to stop it" made for another l-o-n-g thread. But, at that time, the OP kept saying the only way to "stop' the sin was in "deliverance". The fact is, folks keep on persisting in certain sins because they have no desire to overcome the sin. (As Project Peter said.)

They don't STOP the sin because they have no desire to walk away from it. Their desire is for the drinking, the drugs, the fornicating, or whatever else their 'sin' may be. They want to continue in whatever it is.

I agree. Stop. Stop turning the computer on to search for porn after mama is asleep. Stop buying the alcohol. Stop the flirtations.
Don't go there. Go to your knees instead. Open the Bible instead.

[Sirus]

We can talk all day about the old man dying and being raised with Christ and all that jazz, but at the end of the day that is all a bunch of religious terminology that means being reconciled to God in order to have a relationship.

More simply, you wanted to talk about telling believers [that want to overcome sin -Diggindeeper] how to overcome sin. Well, telling those that are already reconciled and in relationship with God to be reconciled and in relationship with God doesn't help because it doesn't tell them how to overcome sin. I really don't see how telling them to seek tells them how to overcome sin. Sure, God will reveal how to one that truly seeks Him but why let a hard road process that often takes a long time happen when you could just tell them how to 'live as those alive from the dead' -Rom 6:13?

[Firstfruits]

In order to be able to overcome we must be sure we are properly equiped for battle, otherwise instead of being overcomers we shall be overcome. We must put on the whole armour of God.

Ephesians 6:13-18
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, salvation, prayer.

If we lack any of these we will cannot overcome sin.

God bless!

Firstfruits

[VerticalReality]

That he certainly did. In those letters... you ain't going to see all the "get to the root cause" stuff nor are you going to see where Paul says... just give it your best shot and let Jesus do the rest. What Paul says... stop sinning. Says it in a myriad of different ways too! Now and again... Paul, like Jesus, just simply spelled it out to folks and said knock it off. Thing is... Paul did write that verse and yet folks tend to think it out in left field for someone to say it today. Your post to me was an example... and you attributed it to me as if saying it made me the freak with five eyes. Thing is... it is there and you have to contend with what it actually says eh? Or ignore it as Greek that can't be understood. I suspect those are the only two options.

So, what you're saying is that Paul proclaimed people needed to stop doing that which even he couldn't stop doing? I understand you believe that in Romans 7 Paul was talking about being under the law when he couldn't stop sinning, but regardless of this opinion there was a time when Paul truly desired to stop sinning but couldn't, and he wasn't just playing games or kidding when he said he didn't know how to stop. So, the only thing you are going to advise someone like Paul is stop sinning when he's already said he can't? Sorry, but that is just not the answer.

[VerticalReality]

It's not just religious terminology... it's biblical terminology. Man can make it religious sure... but you're tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm not tossing anything out. I'm not saying those concepts are not true. I'm saying that just throwing out religious terminology is not the answer. Religious folks always like to throw out religious answers without actually explaining what it means. "Walk in the Spirit." Okay, what does that mean? "You have to believe." Okay, believe what? Just throwing out what the church makes into a religious cliche is not going to help anyone understand what you're talking about.

[VerticalReality]

Yeah, that's exactly what my post was all about!

That's only the beginning/part of the gospel. The gospel is not just Jesus dying for your sins. It's also believers being put into the body of Christ to be crucified, dead, buried, and raised with Christ.

I sure am glad God wrote all that jazz! Look, the newborn on milk is reconciled and has a relationship with God, but he's not supposed to stay there. He grows in the knowledge of Christ -what we have been freely given- and then walks in it. This is not 'reconciliation in order to have a relationship'. You have it completely backwards! It is because of reconciliation and relationship the new man can partake of the divine nature and grow and walk. Paul in Romans 7 was reconciled and in relationship but had some knowledge of Christ to learn. The fornicator in corinth was reconciled and in relationship but had some knowledge of Christ to learn. They are two completely separate things. Reconciliation and relationship is because of the blood and what Christ did for us, not because of our walk.

I got news for you here, Sirus, knowing you have died with Christ and raised with Him is a milk message as well. However, you are still saying that the answer to overcoming sin is a positional thing. Having died with Christ and being seated in the heavenlies with Him is our position. We have to know how to walk in the new man, not just know about the new man. How do we walk in the new man and put off the old?

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you that renewing our mind is important. We do need to know these things. However, we cannot know them and walk in them without the relationship. Relationship is not just a positional thing. Relationship is an active thing. Through this relationship we are taught truth by His Spirit. Without the relationship we are not taught anything.

[VerticalReality]

In post #305, the bottom line (and finishing statement) is this:

"...no desire to overcome the sin."

Some time back, this same chapter (Romans 7) and Paul "hating his sin, but not being able to stop it" made for another l-o-n-g thread. But, at that time, the OP kept saying the only way to "stop' the sin was in "deliverance". The fact is, folks keep on persisting in certain sins because they have no desire to overcome the sin. (As Project Peter said.)

They don't STOP the sin because they have no desire to walk away from it. Their desire is for the drinking, the drugs, the fornicating, or whatever else their 'sin' may be. They want to continue in whatever it is.

I agree. Stop. Stop turning the computer on to search for porn after mama is asleep. Stop buying the alcohol. Stop the flirtations.
Don't go there. Go to your knees instead. Open the Bible instead.

I'm amazed at you, Diggindeeper. I'm amazed when I see a Christian quote the word of God exactly, and then say they disagree with it.