Overcoming Sin

[Sirus]

Not sure that I am understanding your question here.

How can the experiential gospel that produces freedom from sin by the power of God be turned into mans religion?

[ProjectPeter]

Pretty much what I've said. We've already been given all things pertaining to life and godliness. If you don't know it and think you need to do something other than believe it, you're missing it.

Reminds me of that newer version of Peter Pan when the kid had to chant... "I do believe in fairy's, I do! I do!" That little chant made everything better and all was right in fairy world! Problem is... we can go on "I do believe in Jesus! I do! I do!" and all that confessing Jesus won't be enough if we practice sin eh? If we ain't living it like Jesus said to live it... what do we really even believe about Jesus that matters?

[Sirus]

VR... Paul was just as zealous for God as a Jew (before Christ) and not sin as the folks he talks about in Romans 10. He thought the ticket to that was in the law. It wasn't. He thought it was in being a Jew and circumcision and sabbath day worship and festivals and etc. etc. It wasn't. It was in Christ where there is no condemnation. Walking in the Spirit freed him from the law and once that happened Paul was able to in fact walk in the Spirit and not the desires of the flesh. Paul DID answer the HOW DO I STOP question and did so very clearly. The answer... Read Romans chapter 8.

Actually he provided the answer in 6 and 7. The first 4 verses of chapter 8 is a summation of chapters 5-8. Chapter 8 does not say how. Verse 3 states it but how is revealed in the previous chapters.

[ProjectPeter]

No, actually it's not. It's impossible to read John telling believers
" My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
and conclude the believers, that have an advocate, Father is not God.

Huh? I'm not talking about folks that sin not and I've got to think that should have been a no-brainer. I'm not talking about someone that "if" they sin either and have made myself very clear throughout the thread on that. I am speaking of folks that practice sin and John did in fact speak of those folks in that very epistle. Read on into the 3 chapter. 2 has some on it as well although I'm sure you are aware of that already. Putting your post together now and getting a little better understanding of where you are coming from and it's just another classic example of folks speaking the same language but meaning something else entirely different.

I did read 100% and as I suspected I didn't miss anything. Again, if you'd like to show otherwise, be my guest.

Uh... you said 80 at the time. If you're up to 100 percent now then cool... so be it. As to your perfection in not missing anything at all... folks will have to be the judge of that. Can't argue with a perfectionist!

[ProjectPeter]

How can the experiential gospel that produces freedom from sin by the power of God be turned into mans religion?

You are going to have to define clearly what you mean by experiential gospel.

[ProjectPeter]

Actually he provided the answer in 6 and 7. The first 4 verses of chapter 8 is a summation of chapters 5-8. Chapter 8 does not say how. Verse 3 states it but how is revealed in the previous chapters.

Paul defines it clearly throughout most all of his letters... the entire letter is truthfully very much explaining it along with other things even starting at 1 and 2 etc. Just as the passage from Ephesians I posted... can do the same from Galatians, Col., Phil., and his letters to Timothy and Titus, etc. It's clearly there for those who want to understand.

[Sirus]

Reminds me of that newer version of Peter Pan when the kid had to chant... "I do believe in fairy's, I do! I do!" That little chant made everything better and all was right in fairy world! Problem is... we can go on "I do believe in Jesus! I do! I do!" and all that confessing Jesus won't be enough if we practice sin eh? If we ain't living it like Jesus said to live it... what do we really even believe about Jesus that matters?

I agree. However we aren't talking about sinners practicing sin. This thread is about how to deliver believers that do what they don't want to do, because how not to, they find not.

[Sirus]

Sounds a lot like the Bob George type greasy grace stuff or Swaggart's whatever he calls it stuff!

One can "believe" they are in the Spirit from now till death but if they are walking (doing) deeds of the flesh... they ain't in the Spirit... not even by faith. They are in the flesh.

Your little sarcastic bad attitude trolling one-liners don't impress anyone. In fact, they're getting down right annoying. Aren't you pastoral administration around here? Act like it!

[VerticalReality]

VR... Paul was just as zealous for God as a Jew (before Christ) and not sin as the folks he talks about in Romans 10. He thought the ticket to that was in the law. It wasn't. He thought it was in being a Jew and circumcision and sabbath day worship and festivals and etc. etc. It wasn't. It was in Christ where there is no condemnation. Walking in the Spirit freed him from the law and once that happened Paul was able to in fact walk in the Spirit and not the desires of the flesh. Paul DID answer the HOW DO I STOP question and did so very clearly. The answer... Read Romans chapter 8.

And what does it mean to walk in the Spirit?

[Sirus]

Totally and 100 percent agree with you here.

Then I guess you changed your mind and turned into greasy grace and fairy land?
Whatever.....

[Sirus]

And what does it mean to walk in the Spirit?

Exactly! Him and Diggindeeper keep spouting of the terminolgy they don't seem to understand or can explain.

[ProjectPeter]

It has long graduated beyond that point. That has been answered many times regardless of folks going on about it not. Certainly it might not be the answers they want... that's up to them. But a "believer" that can't do what they want to do and instead do what they don't want to do (sin) is one that needs to check their faith because there is something broken badly and there is likely no faith at all. Either God has given folks all they need to live a godly life in this present age... or God hasn't. It really is as simple as Paul said... knock it off. It really is as simple as the writer of Hebrews said...

Hebrews 12:1 *Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 *fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

God doesn't wave the magic wand making us no longer sin! We have to stop... lay it aside. Die to sin and live to righteousness. All the other pyscho-babble stuff we here out there that makes us feel better about our "you get an A for effort!" doctrine... that's just teachings of man and sadly will send more folks to hell than it will ever actually lead to eternal life.

[ProjectPeter]

Your little sarcastic bad attitude trolling one-liners don't impress anyone. In fact, they're getting down right annoying. Aren't you pastoral administration around here? Act like it!

Hey... my attitude isn't bad at all! I'm loving this stuff... and your sarcasm and one-liners don't bother me at all! Not so sure you are loving it though... that's a shame!

As to my position here... you can start a thread in chat to mod's or ministers any time. Might even recommend it but for now... just a recommendation.

[Sirus]

The fact is, Paul did not stop at that verse in Romans 7 where he said he hated his sin, but did it anyway. He was explaining how it was under the law. We cannot jerk out one scripture and make it our foundation. He went farther, saying things like this:

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Christ Jesus said just before his death, "IT IS FINISHED!" But if we say we are in Christ, are believers, Christians...there is always a price to pay. One cost to us is that we are expected to do is:

"Lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us..." (Hebrews 12:1)

We are NOT to lay it aside, or leave it at the cross, then pick it back up again and walk back into bondage.

Moses, for example,chose to suffer affliction with the people of God rather than to ENJOY THE PLEASURES OF SIN for a season. So did Joseph.

So it is with us. We, each and every one of us, choose whether or not we walk in the flesh or in the spirit.

How do you do that? How do you choose to walk in the Spirit if you don't even know what it means? Are you really going to take the ridiculous stand others have, that anyone that commits a sin is not a believer? It sure is great to learn of you perfect believers that never sin because you have just told yourself to stop. The law can do it!

[ProjectPeter]

And what does it mean to walk in the Spirit?

Galatians 5:13 ¶For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care lest you be consumed by one another.
16 ¶But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 ¶If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.


Red........ STOP
Green.... GO and do.

Seriously... doesn't that answer the question?