Overcoming Sin

[VerticalReality]

There have been a lot of threads lately instructing Christians that they shouldn't sin. This is basically a no-brainer. Every Christian knows that they should not sin. Every Christian knows that sin is bad. Sure, some Christians may have a deeper revelation of that than others, but generally all Christians know that sinning is something they should not be doing.

What hasn't been discussed at any great length is how a Christian can overcome sin. Most Christians would say something like, "You overcome sin by walking in the Spirit." Okay, how do you do that? Additionally, just because you stop sinning doesn't mean you are walking in the Spirit. There have been many unbelievers who have stopped committing a particular sin such as cheating on their spouse or getting drunk who didn't do so by walking in the Spirit.

Most Christians would then say, "Well, you have to believe." Okay, believe what? "You have to be obedient." Okay, how? Did Paul not desire to be obedient in Romans 7 when he stated his will was to obey God even though he couldn't?

This is a typical pattern of the church today. You see a lot of folks stating the obvious. Telling people they shouldn't sin is not the answer to the problem. Telling someone in bondage that they shouldn't be in bondage is not what will get them out of it. You have to tell them how the chains can be broken. The way to break those chains is not by saying, "Hey, you shouldn't be in those chains!"

Imagine a man standing over another who is bound by shackles and chains only to say, "You know, you shouldn't be like that." Well, duh! Saying something like that doesn't do anyone any good. You have to tell a person how they can be free! If you can't set the captive free you shouldn't make things worse by condemning them for being that way.

The church is supposed to bring the keys to freedom, not add more weight that will smother those in captivity. Condemning someone who already doesn't want to be in captivity is only going to bring more discouragement and defeat. A person in such a situation will only give up and feel as though there is no hope for them. This IS NOT what Jesus did, and it IS NOT what He commanded His disciples to do.

So, in this thread let us discuss the keys to freedom. Let's actually discuss something that will do someone good instead of making them feel worse about themselves.

[RogerW]

There have been a lot of threads lately instructing Christians that they shouldn't sin. This is basically a no-brainer. Every Christian knows that they should not sin. Every Christian knows that sin is bad. Sure, some Christians may have a deeper revelation of that than others, but generally all Christians know that sinning is something they should not be doing.

What hasn't been discussed at any great length is how a Christian can overcome sin. Most Christians would say something like, "You overcome sin by walking in the Spirit." Okay, how do you do that? Additionally, just because you stop sinning doesn't mean you are walking in the Spirit. There have been many unbelievers who have stopped committing a particular sin such as cheating on their spouse or getting drunk who didn't do so by walking in the Spirit.

Most Christians would then say, "Well, you have to believe." Okay, believe what? "You have to be obedient." Okay, how? Did Paul not desire to be obedient in Romans 7 when he stated his will was to obey God even though he couldn't?

This is a typical pattern of the church today. You see a lot of folks stating the obvious. Telling people they shouldn't sin is not the answer to the problem. Telling someone in bondage that they shouldn't be in bondage is not what will get them out of it. You have to tell them how the chains can be broken. The way to break those chains is not by saying, "Hey, you shouldn't be in those chains!"

Imagine a man standing over another who is bound by shackles and chains only to say, "You know, you shouldn't be like that." Well, duh! Saying something like that doesn't do anyone any good. You have to tell a person how they can be free! If you can't set the captive free you shouldn't make things worse by condemning them for being that way.

The church is supposed to bring the keys to freedom, not add more weight that will smother those in captivity. Condemning someone who already doesn't want to be in captivity is only going to bring more discouragement and defeat. A person in such a situation will only give up and feel as though there is no hope for them. This IS NOT what Jesus did, and it IS NOT what He commanded His disciples to do.

So, in this thread let us discuss the keys to freedom. Let's actually discuss something that will do someone good instead of making them feel worse about themselves.

Col 3:2..."Set you affection [heart/mind] on things above." Unless our hearts are set on the things of Christ, they will not be sought in the proper manner. "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life" (Pro 4:23). Do not set your mind, thoughts and desires on the things of this world (Ro 8:5). Food and clothing, care of families, health and necessities of life are to be sought after and provided for, but not with anxiety and distress, as if these were our chief end or the source of our chief happiness (Mt 6:28-34). All the things of this earth shall fade away, "but he that doeth the will of God abides forever" (1Jo 2:15-17).

[Firstfruits]

There have been a lot of threads lately instructing Christians that they shouldn't sin. This is basically a no-brainer. Every Christian knows that they should not sin. Every Christian knows that sin is bad. Sure, some Christians may have a deeper revelation of that than others, but generally all Christians know that sinning is something they should not be doing.

What hasn't been discussed at any great length is how a Christian can overcome sin. Most Christians would say something like, "You overcome sin by walking in the Spirit." Okay, how do you do that? Additionally, just because you stop sinning doesn't mean you are walking in the Spirit. There have been many unbelievers who have stopped committing a particular sin such as cheating on their spouse or getting drunk who didn't do so by walking in the Spirit.

Most Christians would then say, "Well, you have to believe." Okay, believe what? "You have to be obedient." Okay, how? Did Paul not desire to be obedient in Romans 7 when he stated his will was to obey God even though he couldn't?

This is a typical pattern of the church today. You see a lot of folks stating the obvious. Telling people they shouldn't sin is not the answer to the problem. Telling someone in bondage that they shouldn't be in bondage is not what will get them out of it. You have to tell them how the chains can be broken. The way to break those chains is not by saying, "Hey, you shouldn't be in those chains!"

Imagine a man standing over another who is bound by shackles and chains only to say, "You know, you shouldn't be like that." Well, duh! Saying something like that doesn't do anyone any good. You have to tell a person how they can be free! If you can't set the captive free you shouldn't make things worse by condemning them for being that way.

The church is supposed to bring the keys to freedom, not add more weight that will smother those in captivity. Condemning someone who already doesn't want to be in captivity is only going to bring more discouragement and defeat. A person in such a situation will only give up and feel as though there is no hope for them. This IS NOT what Jesus did, and it IS NOT what He commanded His disciples to do.

So, in this thread let us discuss the keys to freedom. Let's actually discuss something that will do someone good instead of making them feel worse about themselves.

With the understanding that Jesus is our example, what did Jesus do when tempted with sin?

Firstfruits

[Br. Barnabas]

I try to follow the example laid out by St Benedict in his rule. In his Prologue he advises us to begin every job or task with prayer, he says "First of all, every time you begin a good work, you must pray to him most earnestly to bring it to perfection." Every work must be aligned with what the Father has in store for us, we should seek his counsel and see if he tells us yes or no.

He also advises us to take hold of our thoughts any evil or bad thoughts should be dashed upon the rock which is Christ. When evil thoughts come we should not dwell on them. I have found that many time thoughts good or bad start in the mind, many of them are surface thoughts and come and go quickly. Good thoughts should be dwelt on so that they might be cared for and planted in the heart, however, evil thoughts should be dashed on the rock that is Christ lest they take are planted in the heart. Once a thought is planted in the heart it is usually carried out by the hand or carried out in our actions. I have noticed in my life that evil thoughts go from the mind to heart to hands much faster than, good thoughts. That is why we must be very careful of our thoughts and at the first sign of the evil ones dash them upon Christ that he might destory them.

The other thing that St Benedict sought to do in this rule and in his monastery was to set up a way of life for the monks. Their day was to be filled with prayer, study, and work. And so filled with these things that prayer happened when one worked, and pray also happened when one studied. But also that study happened when work was going on. In other words the whole day became filled with prayer, study, and work. So that one did not just pray at the appointed time or study at the appointed time, or work at the appointed time, but that all flowed together and so that the mind, spirit and body would at all times be engaged and hopefully focused upon Christ. So that the monk cutting wheat was doing it to the glory of God and praying in his action, and mediating or studying a certain verse or the studying the beauty of God's creation.

I believe that in these ways we can start to overcome sin.

Another way that can help us to overcome some sins is to keep silence when ever we can. In this way we are taming the tongue as James advises us to do.

[Firstfruits]

I try to follow the example laid out by St Benedict in his rule. In his Prologue he advises us to begin every job or task with prayer, he says "First of all, every time you begin a good work, you must pray to him most earnestly to bring it to perfection." Every work must be aligned with what the Father has in store for us, we should seek his counsel and see if he tells us yes or no.

He also advises us to take hold of our thoughts any evil or bad thoughts should be dashed upon the rock which is Christ. When evil thoughts come we should not dwell on them. I have found that many time thoughts good or bad start in the mind, many of them are surface thoughts and come and go quickly. Good thoughts should be dwelt on so that they might be cared for and planted in the heart, however, evil thoughts should be dashed on the rock that is Christ lest they take are planted in the heart. Once a thought is planted in the heart it is usually carried out by the hand or carried out in our actions. I have noticed in my life that evil thoughts go from the mind to heart to hands much faster than, good thoughts. That is why we must be very careful of our thoughts and at the first sign of the evil ones dash them upon Christ that he might destory them.

The other thing that St Benedict sought to do in this rule and in his monastery was to set up a way of life for the monks. Their day was to be filled with prayer, study, and work. And so filled with these things that prayer happened when one worked, and pray also happened when one studied. But also that study happened when work was going on. In other words the whole day became filled with prayer, study, and work. So that one did not just pray at the appointed time or study at the appointed time, or work at the appointed time, but that all flowed together and so that the mind, spirit and body would at all times be engaged and hopefully focused upon Christ. So that the monk cutting wheat was doing it to the glory of God and praying in his action, and mediating or studying a certain verse or the studying the beauty of God's creation.

I believe that in these ways we can start to overcome sin.

Another way that can help us to overcome some sins is to keep silence when ever we can. In this way we are taming the tongue as James advises us to do.

So when we are faced with temptation we should cast it on Jesus and not sin?

Firstfruits

[Br. Barnabas]

So when we are faced with temptation we should cast it on Jesus and not sin?

Firstfruits

We should take hold of our thoughts as Scripture teaches and we should dash those thought against Christ. We should destory them as a ship is against rocks in a storm. In that way we destory the thoughts and remember Christ.

[Firstfruits]

We should take hold of our thoughts as Scripture teaches and we should dash those thought against Christ. We should destory them as a ship is against rocks in a storm. In that way we destory the thoughts and remember Christ.

So Just as Jesus was tempted and did not sin, we can overcome sin?

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Firstfruits

[Br. Barnabas]

So Just as Jesus was tempted and did not sin, we can overcome sin?

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Firstfruits

Yes, just as Paul assures us in 1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

[Brother Mark]

Col 3:2..."Set you affection [heart/mind] on things above." Unless our hearts are set on the things of Christ, they will not be sought in the proper manner. "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life" (Pro 4:23). Do not set your mind, thoughts and desires on the things of this world (Ro 8:5). Food and clothing, care of families, health and necessities of life are to be sought after and provided for, but not with anxiety and distress, as if these were our chief end or the source of our chief happiness (Mt 6:28-34). All the things of this earth shall fade away, "but he that doeth the will of God abides forever" (1Jo 2:15-17).

These are excellent verses! For it is from the heart that sin comes from. So the issue is and always will be a matter of the heart. The question then becomes, how does one have his heart changed and purified?

[Firstfruits]

Yes, just as Paul assures us in 1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

Thank you Uriel,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[LadyMeli]

Wow, this is how I feel exactly. I'm so glad it's posted.

[LadyMeli]

The question then becomes, how does one have his heart changed and purified?

Slowly and in time the outter man will show evidence of the change that has taken place inside the man? That happens with the watering of the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide and teach you?

I placed question marks because it's just a guess at it with my LIMITED knowledge.

[VerticalReality]

Col 3:2..."Set you affection [heart/mind] on things above." Unless our hearts are set on the things of Christ, they will not be sought in the proper manner. "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life" (Pro 4:23). Do not set your mind, thoughts and desires on the things of this world (Ro 8:5). Food and clothing, care of families, health and necessities of life are to be sought after and provided for, but not with anxiety and distress, as if these were our chief end or the source of our chief happiness (Mt 6:28-34). All the things of this earth shall fade away, "but he that doeth the will of God abides forever" (1Jo 2:15-17).

Thanks for the verses. How can someone always have their mind on things above? What sort of things are above?

[VerticalReality]

With the understanding that Jesus is our example, what did Jesus do when tempted with sin?

Firstfruits

So, your advice to someone in bondage is to behave exactly like someone who never was in bondage. That doesn't make any sense.

[VerticalReality]

So Just as Jesus was tempted and did not sin, we can overcome sin?

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Firstfruits

And again you seem to be falling back into the same defeating doctrine of overcoming sin by not sinning.

The one in bondage: "How do I overcome this sin?"

You: "Stop sinning."

Do you not see, Firstfruits, that you are not helping the one in bondage but only telling them they shouldn't be? A person cannot stop being in bondage until they are free from bondage.