Overcoming Sin

[Slug1]

What makes us not trust God at all times, Jesus said that we sould believe without doubting, so why would we believe that we can get anything from God when we do not trust him?

Firstfruits

Trust in God is developed throughout the relationship. Peter jumped out of the boat but what happened to that trust... faith weakened (or was failing) and couldn't support him anymore and what happened? He began to sink... symbolic of us all who talk the talk but when we begin to walk the walk... sometimes fail. Jesus did what? He reached out His hand for Peter... how many Christains don't reach up and take His hand and let HIM do the work that He needs to do in and for us so our faith and trust increases as we experience Him help us?

We are each given a measure of faith, through the relationship that faith grows, as does our trust in God, as does His trust in us as we are led to bigger ministry to do His work.

[John146]

What makes us not trust God at all times, Jesus said that we sould believe without doubting, so why would we believe that we can get anything from God when we do not trust him?

Firstfruits

You didn't address my points or answer my questions. Why not? Does scripture teach that we are expected to be completely spiritually mature Christians immediately upon conversion? Even the disciples didn't trust God at all times. Does that mean they weren't saved? No, it means they had to learn how to trust Him more and more as they grew in the faith. That isn't something that just happens immediately, yet for some reason that is what you expect.

[VerticalReality]

A believer should know that which is pleasing to God, if a believe did not know what sin was from the gospel of Christ then we all have a problem.

Why can we not obey the will of God?

Firstfruits

If a believer already knows what is pleasing to God, why does the word of God instruct believers to find out what is acceptable to Him? If the former is true there would not be a necessity for the latter.

[ProjectPeter]

It DOES matter a whit, first of all because I care if what I'm being taught is correct, and second of all the people who generally tell me I must be sinless are trying to teach me something.

Lesson one... context. What I said was it doesn't matter if I sin, the neighbor sins or the pastor sins because come judgment day... you aren't answering God for their sin. I'll assume you are aware of enough Scripture to understand that it is going to be each of us individually giving account for our own individual little selves. So what I say on the matter... what you say... what the preacher down the street says or the nutbar on the Internet says... frankly doesn't matter. What matters is what does that book we call the Bible say eh?

To quote that there book we call the Bible and the Apostle Paul...

1 Corinthians 15: 34)Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God I speak this to your shame.

Now... slice it, dice it, scatter, cover, and chunk it (Waffle House humor for you Southern folk)... but regardless of how we want to think... Paul says what Paul says and that is Bible and what we ought to do eh?

If I must be sinless, I want to know two things.
i) Is it possible and
ii) How

With God... how does it read in that same Book? "All things are possible." Do a Greek study on that word for ALL and you'll be utterly amazed to find out that it really does mean ALL.

Assuming (i) is true, I would very much like to talk to someone who's done so in order that I can understand (ii). If nobody is around who lives sinlessly, then how would I know (i) is true and thus ever get to (ii)? If someone is going to teach sinless perfection, they must be prepared to be asked if anyone has actually achieved it.

I'll give you a great example to follow. Jesus. Again... they wrote all that stuff for us to follow... not for us to look to man.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't want to know this stuff just for kicks and giggles. I don't need to know if you or the next guy are sinless so I have insight into your characters. I need to know if you or the next guy is sinless because it has imminent and far reaching consequences to my understanding of salvation. For example, when Peter denied and cursed Christ, was he, at that point doomed to an eternity in hell? Clearly he was not sinless, so what was the consequence? Can we be reasonably sure that after the resurrection Peter never sinned ever again?

Again... don't matter my character and being a faceless person on the Internet... I could tell you that I don't sin and you wouldn't believe me anyway nor would I likely believe you if you said it either. In the words of that Book again and the Apostle John...

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Follow that and IF you sin you have an advocate. I'm thinking IF we really understood the "if" there then it would be easy to see that sin should be the rare thing... not the norm.

Read my tagline under my username... 2 Peter 1: 1-11. Wonderful promise there. Progress in those things and you'll never stumble. Don't... gonna be a problem!

[onecalled]

What helped me was going by the Ten Commandments. I figured it was a good place to start. From then I learned about what Jesus taught, which fulfilled the Ten Commandments. For me I saw it as "don't commit adultery"-don't continually think about women that you are attracted to. Another is "don't be like the drunkards"-easy, don't drink alcohol. Some Commandments are easier than others to obey, but only if YOU allow God to work in your life and not rebel against the Commandments and Teachings of Jesus will you grow in the knowledge and understanding of God. Example, don't drink and lust after women; and if you do ask for help from another Believer who will support you and pray with you at any time of the day. Because the devil never takes a day off!!!

[LookingUp]

There have been a lot of threads lately instructing Christians that they shouldn't sin. This is basically a no-brainer. Every Christian knows that they should not sin. Every Christian knows that sin is bad. Sure, some Christians may have a deeper revelation of that than others, but generally all Christians know that sinning is something they should not be doing.

What hasn't been discussed at any great length is how a Christian can overcome sin. Most Christians would say something like, "You overcome sin by walking in the Spirit." Okay, how do you do that? Additionally, just because you stop sinning doesn't mean you are walking in the Spirit. There have been many unbelievers who have stopped committing a particular sin such as cheating on their spouse or getting drunk who didn't do so by walking in the Spirit.

Most Christians would then say, "Well, you have to believe." Okay, believe what? "You have to be obedient." Okay, how? Did Paul not desire to be obedient in Romans 7 when he stated his will was to obey God even though he couldn't?

This is a typical pattern of the church today. You see a lot of folks stating the obvious. Telling people they shouldn't sin is not the answer to the problem. Telling someone in bondage that they shouldn't be in bondage is not what will get them out of it. You have to tell them how the chains can be broken. The way to break those chains is not by saying, "Hey, you shouldn't be in those chains!"

Imagine a man standing over another who is bound by shackles and chains only to say, "You know, you shouldn't be like that." Well, duh! Saying something like that doesn't do anyone any good. You have to tell a person how they can be free! If you can't set the captive free you shouldn't make things worse by condemning them for being that way.

The church is supposed to bring the keys to freedom, not add more weight that will smother those in captivity. Condemning someone who already doesn't want to be in captivity is only going to bring more discouragement and defeat. A person in such a situation will only give up and feel as though there is no hope for them. This IS NOT what Jesus did, and it IS NOT what He commanded His disciples to do.

So, in this thread let us discuss the keys to freedom. Let's actually discuss something that will do someone good instead of making them feel worse about themselves.

If you are loving the sinner, you are doing what Jesus did with sinners. If you struggle with sin, it's helpful to be reminded of your worth in Christ, to remember who you already are in Christ, and to focus on loving others unconditionally as Christ does. As soon as we try not to sin, our focus is redirected from Christ to ourselves and our sin, and we begin to believe our ability to not sin is based on our own strength. But if we keep our focus on Christ, we find ourselves walking away from sin. You can't walk toward Christ and toward sin at the same time. When you are in Christ, you are a new creature. So, it's not a matter of trying to be something you're not (i.e. trying not to be a sinner) but a matter of being something you already are (i.e. holy and blameless).

[Firstfruits]

If a believer already knows what is pleasing to God, why does the word of God instruct believers to find out what is acceptable to Him? If the former is true there would not be a necessity for the latter.

If you are being tempted to do something which you know is sin then you know you are not going to please God if you do it, the gospel of Christ is the word of God, so if we study the word we will know what the will of God is and what is acceptable to God.

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

If you are being tempted to do something which you know is sin then you know you are not going to please God if you do it, the gospel of Christ is the word of God, so if we study the word we will know what the will of God is and what is acceptable to God.

Firstfruits

Did John know it was wrong to "rain fire from heaven" on the Samaritan's before he asked Jesus about it?

[Firstfruits]

Did John know it was wrong to "rain fire from heaven" on the Samaritan's before he asked Jesus about it?

What I would ask is if the gospel that we now have was complete at that time?

Firstfruits

[HisLeast]

What I would ask is if the gospel that we now have was complete at that time?

So wait... only after the death and resurrection of Jesus and the widespread accpetance of the New Testament canon were men expected to live in sinless perfection?

[Brother Mark]

What I would ask is if the gospel that we now have was complete at that time?

Firstfruits

Does a new born babe in Christ know the complete gospel? Certainly John the Baptist knew at that time about the Lamb that would take away the sins of the world.

Do we see through a glass darkly?

[VerticalReality]

If you are being tempted to do something which you know is sin then you know you are not going to please God if you do it, the gospel of Christ is the word of God, so if we study the word we will know what the will of God is and what is acceptable to God.

Firstfruits

So, in other words, finding out what is acceptable to God is a process of maturity.

[Firstfruits]

So wait... only after the death and resurrection of Jesus and the widespread accpetance of the New Testament canon were men expected to live in sinless perfection?

God has always been against sin, but we today have the gospel of Christ with all we need to know I do not know the scripture that refers to what John did, is it possible to have it so that I can check what is says?

I would also say that we are again looking at what others have done and not at the commandment. If Jesus says "go thy way and sin no more, and we go and sin, the commandment remains the same.

Thanks,

God bless you!

[Firstfruits]

So, in other words, finding out what is acceptable to God is a process of maturity.

Yes it is, but the problem is we do not seem to want to go on to having meat, and are not able to bear it.

1 Cor 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

Yes it is, ...

So, if it's a process, then it is possible that one doesn't know all sin at salvation and must learn?