Overcoming Sin

[VerticalReality]

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Shouldn't we be putting to death the deeds of the heart if this is where everything originates for the believer?

[Brother Mark]

Okay, so how will someone with a new heart given by God desire to be with other women? I can see how someone's flesh will desire to be with other women, but how could a heart from God lust after this woman? What Jesus is pointing out in the sermon on the mount is the need for a new heart.

Peter sinned as did Paul. Yet both were new creatures. I see no paradox with new creatures committing sin.

Are there any scriptures that say sin doesn't come from the heart? After David sinned (who I think had a new heart too as did Saul) the still sinned. And then David prayed and asked God to create in him a clean heart. I think our heart needs to be guarded for for from it flows good and evil.

Anyway, we are off topic. I will be willing to let you have the last word on it then move on to how to deal with sin.

[Firstfruits]

Okay, and what is that? Where do we get this righteousness, peace and joy?

According to the scripture, that is the kingdom of God.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

This is concerning thinking of things above.

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Shouldn't we be putting to death the deeds of the heart if this is where everything originates for the believer?

I agree that sin dwells in the body too. No doubt about that. I'll be thinking about some of this stuff. Thanks for posting it.

[andrew_no_one]

With the understanding that Jesus is our example, what did Jesus do when tempted with sin?

Firstfruits

When Jesus was tempted with sin, he constantly responded with scripture.
Matthew 4:1-11

[Firstfruits]

When Jesus was tempted with sin, he constantly responded with scripture.
Matthew 4:1-11

And he did not sin, even though he could have.

Firstfruits

[VerticalReality]

Are there any scriptures that say sin doesn't come from the heart?

Yes, I believe the scriptures do say this when Paul declares that he was doing that which he hates. Love and hate comes from the heart. Paul also said that he was doing what he willed not to do. Again, to say a person is doing something from the heart is the same as saying they love what they are doing. Paul declares this not to be true in his case. Is it the case a lot of times? Yes, I believe it is. However, I do not believe it to be true at all times.

[VerticalReality]

According to the scripture, that is the kingdom of God.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

This is concerning thinking of things above.

Firstfruits

What is the kingdom of God? Why does it seem impossible for folks to explain something without all the religious speak.

[andrew_no_one]

And he did not sin, even though he could have.

Firstfruits

Amen! So then we should do the same, yes?

[VerticalReality]

Amen! So then we should do the same, yes?

Okay . . . how? That is the point of this thread.

[wouldrichest]

So, your advice to someone in bondage is to behave exactly like someone who never was in bondage. That doesn't make any sense.

And again you seem to be falling back into the same defeating doctrine of overcoming sin by not sinning.

The one in bondage: "How do I overcome this sin?"

You: "Stop sinning."

Do you not see, Firstfruits, that you are not helping the one in bondage but only telling them they shouldn't be? A person cannot stop being in bondage until they are free from bondage.

__________________________

[RogerW]

Thanks for the verses. How can someone always have their mind on things above? What sort of things are above?

In my own personal life I try to make it a habit to not only read, but also meditate on Scripture every day. At times I have only minutes and other times much of the day. I try to always begin and end my day in prayer. These forums too have proven very beneficial for me, as well as weekly Bible studies. I find the more I time I spend thinking of Christ, or studying, and praying my mind/heart most naturally is set on things above, and I find I am not so consumed with things of the world. I have learned that when I am lazy about making a concentrated effort to do these things that I become very worldly. When I make excuses for not praying, and meditating daily, my carnal mind most naturally begins to seek ways to entertain myself. I begin to think I need a new car, or a vacation, or I allow television to amuse me several hours of the day. At these times I am most vulnerable, and actually find joy when convicted by the Spirit to re-focus.

[andrew_no_one]

Okay . . . how? That is the point of this thread.

One standard year consists of 365 days, which consist of 8760 hours or 525,600 minutes or 31,536,000 seconds not counting leap years and assuming that daylight savings/spending cancels one another out.
We can further assume that the average American male in his early to mid-thirties sleeps seven hours typically each night (based on my research and using myself as a test and control subject). If that is true (and consistent) that would mean the average person would be asleep for 153,300 minutes and awake for 372,300 minutes each year (slightly more than 2.4 times the time spent sleeping). I don’t think I’ll have much opposition if I were to suppose that much of the energy spent in thought while asleep is directed, at least mostly, towards that which it is directed at while awake.
Some of us can control our thoughts while sleeping, others cannot and for this reason we will focus on the 1,020 minutes a person spends awake each day.

Upon waking, most people have what could be considered a “neutral” morning ritual involving a shower, possibly a sensible breakfast and the brushing of teeth. Since most of my experience with this has been through self-study, I will use myself as an example.

0500 awake
0500-0515 taking my dog outside
0515-0525 washing and preparing the coffee pot.

The three actions I described above, I consider “neutral” meaning neither good nor sinful (though one could argue each case for either cause). As far as my convictions from the Lord though, He has not voiced displeasure towards these actions (and if He did, they would cease immediately). If the coffee or the dog somehow managed to become an idol, drinking the coffee and spending time with my dog would be sinful. I don’t feel this is the case since my dog will sit with me while I am doing Bible study and drinking coffee. This will continue, alternating between prayer, study and Bible Forum, until around 0630, at which point I will typically shower.

When the morning time is over however, there starts a decision making process that will affect the character of my day.
Will I spend more time in prayer before leaving for work, or will I spend an excess of time on Bible Forum?
When I am leaving for work, am I allowing myself enough time to get there without speeding and thus breaking the law and endangering others?
When I arrive at work, will I greet everyone warmly and make sure that they are on track to having a good day themselves?
Will I take time to pray for my co-workers if they seem a little down-and-out?

If I haven’t completely lost everyone’s attention yet, what I am saying is that a day is a length of time and is full of a great many decisions and possible outcomes.
When faced with those decisions, are we considering how Jesus would want us to decide?
Are we praying and asking for help in making the right decisions?
If we are not seeking Jesus in literally everything we do, the outcome could very easily be sinful!
When left to our own devises, we will most always sin, because we have a sinful nature.
It is only when we shuffle loose our sinful nature (ignore it, fight it....but never indulge it) and take on the nature of Christ Jesus, that we are even remotely capable of having a “good” day.
Are we praying without ceasing?
Are we asking our Lord for His help?
Are we taking care that our actions are for his glory and not for our own pleasure?
Only Jesus was able to live a life that was without sin, so it is only through Him that we are able to overcome the sin in our lives; though we ourselves do nothing, it is Christ living in us that must do everything.

[VerticalReality]

One standard year consists of 365 days, which consist of 8760 hours or 525,600 minutes or 31,536,000 seconds not counting leap years and assuming that daylight savings/spending cancels one another out.
We can further assume that the average American male in his early to mid-thirties sleeps seven hours typically each night (based on my research and using myself as a test and control subject). If that is true (and consistent) that would mean the average person would be asleep for 153,300 minutes and awake for 372,300 minutes each year (slightly more than 2.4 times the time spent sleeping). I don’t think I’ll have much opposition if I were to suppose that much of the energy spent in thought while asleep is directed, at least mostly, towards that which it is directed at while awake.
Some of us can control our thoughts while sleeping, others cannot and for this reason we will focus on the 1,020 minutes a person spends awake each day.

Upon waking, most people have what could be considered a “neutral” morning ritual involving a shower, possibly a sensible breakfast and the brushing of teeth. Since most of my experience with this has been through self-study, I will use myself as an example.

0500 awake
0500-0515 taking my dog outside
0515-0525 washing and preparing the coffee pot.

The three actions I described above, I consider “neutral” meaning neither good nor sinful (though one could argue each case for either cause). As far as my convictions from the Lord though, He has not voiced displeasure towards these actions (and if He did, they would cease immediately). If the coffee or the dog somehow managed to become an idol, drinking the coffee and spending time with my dog would be sinful. I don’t feel this is the case since my dog will sit with me while I am doing Bible study and drinking coffee. This will continue, alternating between prayer, study and Bible Forum, until around 0630, at which point I will typically shower.

When the morning time is over however, there starts a decision making process that will affect the character of my day.
Will I spend more time in prayer before leaving for work, or will I spend an excess of time on Bible Forum?
When I am leaving for work, am I allowing myself enough time to get there without speeding and thus breaking the law and endangering others?
When I arrive at work, will I greet everyone warmly and make sure that they are on track to having a good day themselves?
Will I take time to pray for my co-workers if they seem a little down-and-out?

If I haven’t completely lost everyone’s attention yet, what I am saying is that a day is a length of time and is full of a great many decisions and possible outcomes.
When faced with those decisions, are we considering how Jesus would want us to decide?
Are we praying and asking for help in making the right decisions?
If we are not seeking Jesus in literally everything we do, the outcome could very easily be sinful!
When left to our own devises, we will most always sin, because we have a sinful nature.
It is only when we shuffle loose our sinful nature (ignore it, fight it....but never indulge it) and take on the nature of Christ Jesus, that we are even remotely capable of having a “good” day.
Are we praying without ceasing?
Are we asking our Lord for His help?
Are we taking care that our actions are for his glory and not for our own pleasure?
Only Jesus was able to live a life that was without sin, so it is only through Him that we are able to overcome the sin in our lives; though we ourselves do nothing, it is Christ living in us that must do everything.

So, to summarize your post, basically your answer is to seek the Lord?

[andrew_no_one]

So, to summarize your post, basically your answer is to seek the Lord?

Seek the Lord,
Find the Lord,
Yield to the Lord's direction for you and your life,
Trust the Lord that He is willing to change you and help you be more like Him.