Overcoming Sin

[Firstfruits]

It turns into the classics that we've seen countless times.

"Do you sin?" is what folks will ask and they do so as if what I do or don't do even matters in the grand scheme of their eternity. Here is a promise that I can make to everyone reading. It doesn't matter a whit if I sin or the neighbor down the street or the pastor of your church still sins. When we stand before God we will be only there answering for our own sins or lack thereof.

"Isn't it hypocritical for someone not perfect to point out the need for perfection?" See above.

Truth is truth and Scripture is truth. No one will be judged by the words of man, mine or others, but you'll be judged by that book we carry called the Bible. It says what it says and we'll stand convicted or pardoned based on those words. Here is what it says in 1 Corinthians... become sober minded as you ought and stop sinning for some of you don't know God and I say that to your shame." Now all that being said... I can tell you that Paul really didn't mean that the way it sounds. I can tell you what I think it really meant to say. I can hack up the Greek and search the Internet to find scholars to support my hack job thus showing you why I don't think it really meant to say "stop sinning". That's easy to do now days and it's done all the time. Problem is... the hacker won't be your advocate come judgment day. Let God be true and every man a liar eh? It says what it says and we need ask ourselves... "WHY CAN'T I overcome sin?" The truth will set you free.

I have just been asked that question again, and though I had not yet seen this post I said what you have said.

God bless!

Firstfruits

[HisLeast]

It turns into the classics that we've seen countless times.

"Do you sin?" is what folks will ask and they do so as if what I do or don't do even matters in the grand scheme of their eternity. Here is a promise that I can make to everyone reading. It doesn't matter a whit if I sin or the neighbor down the street or the pastor of your church still sins. When we stand before God we will be only there answering for our own sins or lack thereof.

"Isn't it hypocritical for someone not perfect to point out the need for perfection?" See above.

Truth is truth and Scripture is truth. No one will be judged by the words of man, mine or others, but you'll be judged by that book we carry called the Bible. It says what it says and we'll stand convicted or pardoned based on those words. Here is what it says in 1 Corinthians... become sober minded as you ought and stop sinning for some of you don't know God and I say that to your shame." Now all that being said... I can tell you that Paul really didn't mean that the way it sounds. I can tell you what I think it really meant to say. I can hack up the Greek and search the Internet to find scholars to support my hack job thus showing you why I don't think it really meant to say "stop sinning". That's easy to do now days and it's done all the time. Problem is... the hacker won't be your advocate come judgment day. Let God be true and every man a liar eh? It says what it says and we need ask ourselves... "WHY CAN'T I overcome sin?" The truth will set you free.

It DOES matter a whit, first of all because I care if what I'm being taught is correct, and second of all the people who generally tell me I must be sinless are trying to teach me something.

If I must be sinless, I want to know two things.
i) Is it possible and
ii) How

Assuming (i) is true, I would very much like to talk to someone who's done so in order that I can understand (ii). If nobody is around who lives sinlessly, then how would I know (i) is true and thus ever get to (ii)? If someone is going to teach sinless perfection, they must be prepared to be asked if anyone has actually achieved it.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't want to know this stuff just for kicks and giggles. I don't need to know if you or the next guy are sinless so I have insight into your characters. I need to know if you or the next guy is sinless because it has imminent and far reaching consequences to my understanding of salvation. For example, when Peter denied and cursed Christ, was he, at that point doomed to an eternity in hell? Clearly he was not sinless, so what was the consequence? Can we be reasonably sure that after the resurrection Peter never sinned ever again?

[Firstfruits]

It DOES matter a whit, first of all because I care if what I'm being taught is correct, and second of all the people who generally tell me I must be sinless are trying to teach me something.

If I must be sinless, I want to know two things.
i) Is it possible and
ii) How

Assuming (i) is true, I would very much like to talk to someone who's done so in order that I can understand (ii). If nobody is around who lives sinlessly, then how would I know (i) is true and thus ever get to (ii)? If someone is going to teach sinless perfection, they must be prepared to be asked if anyone has actually achieved it.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't want to know this stuff just for kicks and giggles. I don't need to know if you or the next guy are sinless so I have insight into your characters. I need to know if you or the next guy is sinless because it has imminent and far reaching consequences to my understanding of salvation. For example, when Peter denied and cursed Christ, was he, at that point doomed to an eternity in hell? Clearly he was not sinless, so what was the consequence? Can we be reasonably sure that after the resurrection Peter never sinned ever again?

I believe we are looking at this the wrong way, we are concerned with whether or not we can live without sinning, we are however not to concerned with the will of God not to sin. Which is more important, obeying God or pleasing men?

Firstfruits

[RabbiKnife]

Sorry, but that reply makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Brother Mark]

I believe we are looking at this the wrong way, we are concerned with whether or not we can live without sinning, we are however not to concerned with the will of God not to sin. Which is more important, obeying God or pleasing men?

Firstfruits

Lots of people believe it is possible to live above sin. Few believe we live above the sin God has not yet revealed to us. 1 John says 2 big things... it was written so that we wouldn't sin. And anyone that says they have no sin is teaching something that isn't true.

IOW, any and all sin God has pointed out to us can be overcome. But that doesn't happen the moment one is saved. Some sins God points out early, some he waits on. Thing is, we deal with them as the Lord points them out. To say someone can live sinless is true, so long as we don't confuse known sins with complete and total sanctification.

And of course, it is important to realize that 1 sin doesn't cause a man to lose his salvation.

[HisLeast]

I believe we are looking at this the wrong way, we are concerned with whether or not we can live without sinning, we are however not to concerned with the will of God not to sin. Which is more important, obeying God or pleasing men?

You'll notice nothing in my post you quoted about wanting to please men. In fact, you will notice my main concerns are universally and exclusively for proper understanding.
If someone tells me I must live sinlessly (as I constantly am), then you're darned right I'm going to be concerned with whether or not I can. It would go a long way to show me it is indeed possible, if someone could show that anyone else has. But apparently that question is out of bounds. Why is that?

[Firstfruits]

Lots of people believe it is possible to live above sin. Few believe we live above the sin God has not yet revealed to us. 1 John says 2 big things... it was written so that we wouldn't sin. And anyone that says they have no sin is teaching something that isn't true.

IOW, any and all sin God has pointed out to us can be overcome. But that doesn't happen the moment one is saved. Some sins God points out early, some he waits on. Thing is, we deal with them as the Lord points them out. To say someone can live sinless is true, so long as we don't confuse known sins with complete and total sanctification.

And of course, it is important to realize that 1 sin doesn't cause a man to lose his salvation.

Would a christian that knows the truth not know whether or not they had unforgiven sin? Would they not believe that according to the promise all uncleaness and unrighteousness had been cleansed by the blood of Jesus?

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

Would a christian that knows the truth not know whether or not they had unforgiven sin? Would they not believe that according to the promise all uncleaness and unrighteousness had been cleansed by the blood of Jesus?

Firstfruits

Does a beleiver know all things from salvation on? Or does a believer see through a glass darkly? Was Peter completely clean with unclean feet? Or was he partially clean with unclean feet?

[Firstfruits]

Does a beleiver know all things from salvation on? Or does a believer see through a glass darkly? Was Peter completely clean with unclean feet? Or was he partially clean with unclean feet?

A believer should know that which is pleasing to God, if a believe did not know what sin was from the gospel of Christ then we all have a problem.

Why can we not obey the will of God?

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

A believer should know that which is pleasing to God, if a believe did not know what sin was from the gospel of Christ then we all have a problem.

Firstfruits

Did Peter know he had denial in him when Jesus told him "You will deny me?"

[Slug1]

Lots of people believe it is possible to live above sin. Few believe we live above the sin God has not yet revealed to us. 1 John says 2 big things... it was written so that we wouldn't sin. And anyone that says they have no sin is teaching something that isn't true.

IOW, any and all sin God has pointed out to us can be overcome. But that doesn't happen the moment one is saved. Some sins God points out early, some he waits on. Thing is, we deal with them as the Lord points them out. To say someone can live sinless is true, so long as we don't confuse known sins with complete and total sanctification.

And of course, it is important to realize that 1 sin doesn't cause a man to lose his salvation.

God has to set priority in the conviction of sin. For example, since I am now dealing with anger, in the past I always prayed for God to take away the anger and He answered. Days later, I was angry in a way that is sinful... rage, swearing, breaking things, saying specific words to manipulate others or hurt others ect.

Since I have begun to seek God in specifics about this anger He has taken me all the way back to my childhood and resurfaced events in my childhood that were completely forgotten about and as I've been surrendering the emotions developed WAY BACK THEN, step by step I have been surrendering over my anger to God.

Sure, He'd take the anger away when I did my shotgun blast prayer but what about the stuff "deep" inside of me that was "causing" the anger?? If the anger is the tip of the iceberg and all I keep doing it chopping at the tip I can see and feel... God wants to work below the surface. Get at all that stuff that is holding that tip above the surface. Anyway... that remained because I never faced it for this simple fact... didn't even know it was still there hidden "deep" in my heart. Those wounds I received as a child when I wasn't listened to, when I felt unloved, when I was punished according to my mom's reasoning but in reality, I was beaten and physically abused. I drove those wounds into myself to suppress them and they scarred over but the damage was still there.

God has begun the process to heal me of anger... this began with the exposure of this anger and EVERYTHING makes me angry but in the process that God is taking me through... much God has assisted me and revealed to me and I have surrendered much to Him as I reach a day I will pray that prayer and He takes away the anger for good.

I know I will still get angry but not the type that will ruin my testimony, won't cause me to destroy stuff around me, I won't run at the mouth cursing everyone from my wife, to my pastor and in the worse rages... God Himself.

God has been patient, God has been faithful... the least I can be is obedient and trust Him... as He does His work inside of me.

[Firstfruits]

Did Peter know he had denial in him when Jesus told him "You will deny me?"

We are all prone to temptation, do we not trust God when he says he will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bear?

Why do we not take Gods way out now that we have Jesus as our example?

Firstfruits

[John146]

We are all prone to temptation, do we not trust God when he says he will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bear?

Why do we not take Gods way out now that we have Jesus as our example?

Sometimes we do and, unless we're perfect like you, sometimes we don't. Ideally, we will take His way out more and more as we continue to mature in the faith but that takes time, does it not? Were you immediately a mature Chiristan upon conversion? When I speak of maturing and growing in the faith do you even know what I'm talking about? Why do you teach that someone must become completely spiritually mature immediately upon conversion?

[Brother Mark]

We are all prone to temptation, do we not trust God when he says he will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bear?

Why do we not take Gods way out now that we have Jesus as our example?

Firstfruits

What of John when he asked Jesus "Should we call fire from heaven down on the Samaritans?" What did Jesus say to him?

Did John know his request was wrong before Jesus pointed it out to him?

[Firstfruits]

Sometimes we do and, unless we're perfect like you, sometimes we don't. Ideally, we will take His way out more and more as we continue to mature in the faith but that takes time, does it not? Were you immediately a mature Chiristan upon conversion? When I speak of maturing and growing in the faith do you even know what I'm talking about? Why do you teach that someone must become completely spiritually mature immediately upon conversion?

What makes us not trust God at all times, Jesus said that we sould believe without doubting, so why would we believe that we can get anything from God when we do not trust him?

Firstfruits