Overcoming Sin

[Sirus]

I got news for you here, Sirus, knowing you have died with Christ and raised with Him is a milk message as well.

Absolutely!...and most are not even here. They barely even sip colostrum. Scripture calls them carnal.

However, you are still saying that the answer to overcoming sin is a positional thing. Having died with Christ and being seated in the heavenlies with Him is our position. We have to know how to walk in the new man, not just know about the new man. How do we walk in the new man and put off the old?

I explained this already, but let me know if the following is not simple enough. God had to, and did, make is very, very, simple for man.

"So in short, when temptation comes, I believe I already have been crucified with Christ and I am dead and free from sin. I thank Him for this "gospel of the grace of God" and do not sin. This I do with sins I could not overcome for 17 years. Sins that prayer, praise, worship, study etc....had no effect on. It works every time because it is His way of escape.

Col 2:6 says

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:"

Galatians 3:2-3 asked

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

We walk by faith right? So why do we talk about study, prayer, and seeking Him when we have already found Him and He just tells us to believe the gospel? Believing the gospel all day every day is walking in the Spirit. Bringing your position in Christ into your experience -by faith- is walking in your Spirit-ual position. Why do we think anything we do other than believing in what He already did is going to set us free? The fact is we know it does not. After praying a thousand prayers and still performing the sin ought to be a clue, don't ya think? All He has asked me to do is believe/obey the gospel. To walk everyday all day by faith.

The problem with brakelite's post is "death to self" which is not a concept found in Scripture, and "asking the Lord to put that old man to death in Jesus" when He already has 2000 years ago. The post is very close though."

Live as one alive from the dead. Just believe you are, right now and when tempted, dead.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

The following verses say you have put off the old and put on the new.

Just believe what God said. You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Like God told Abraham his dead body was alive to produce seed and Abraham believed God, we believe our old man (flesh) is dead and raised to a new life (Spirit). How must easier can it get? It's not hard at all. Just believe the gospel!

Have I not explained how?

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you that renewing our mind is important. We do need to know these things. However, we cannot know them and walk in them without the relationship. Relationship is not just a positional thing. Relationship is an active thing. Through this relationship we are taught truth by His Spirit. Without the relationship we are not taught anything.

I already said 'we know' because 'relationship'. Jesus crucified and reconciled us, then put His Spirit in us for a walk.

• "the newborn on milk is reconciled and has a relationship with God"
• "It is because of reconciliation and relationship the new man can......."
• "telling those that are already reconciled and in relationship with God to be reconciled and in relationship with God doesn't help"

Relationship is not just a positional thing. Relationship is an active thing.

I wanted to zero in on this. It's true, but there's a big 'relationship/fellowship' movement in christianity that presents another gospel, making a list of 'do's' (law) and calling it a relationship. It focuses on various religious acts for sanctification and leaves our positional sanctification in heaven (spirit/position). Instead of believing the gospel and bringing our sanctification into our experience -by faith- (Jesus said "sanctified by faith that is in me" and scripture says "ye are sanctified"), it teaches we participate in our sanctification through religious acts -laws to have a relationship. I'm not saying you are saying this.....I don't know.

Being in relationship and not believing your death, burial, and resurrection with Christ is to be experiential 'by faith', will not set you free. It helps, just as other religions do, but it is not the gospel -the power of God to them that are saved. You can't be free because of relationship alone. You need the complete and finished work of the cross, that is made effectual by faith.

What is relationship alone going to do for you? You gonna pray, read the word, go to church? That's gonna set you free w/o Christ crucified (ye are dead by the body of Christ)? Explain to me how this would work, exactly!

[Firstfruits]

When it come to overcoming sin what does the following mean to us?

In order to be able to overcome we must be sure we are properly equiped for battle, otherwise instead of being overcomers we shall be overcome. We must put on the whole armour of God.

Ephesians 6:13-18
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, salvation, prayer.

If we lack any of these we will cannot overcome sin.

God bless!

Firstfruits

[Sirus]

I'm not tossing anything out. I'm not saying those concepts are not true. I'm saying that just throwing out religious terminology is not the answer. Religious folks always like to throw out religious answers without actually explaining what it means. "Walk in the Spirit." Okay, what does that mean? "You have to believe." Okay, believe what? Just throwing out what the church makes into a religious cliche is not going to help anyone understand what you're talking about.

I did not just throw out religious terminology .... without actually explaining what it means ....and how to apply it. My post was very simple and easy to understand. ...and you ask 'believe what?' calling the gospel plainly explained so a child can understand it 'a religious cliche'? What exactly do you think you are doing shouting 'relationship' from the rooftop? I have hundreds of passages that actually say very plainly 'Christ crucified'. How many do you have that actually say very plainly 'relationship'? Which is used as a cliche more? Relationship by far!

[Sirus]

When it come to overcoming sin what does the following mean to us?

In order to be able to overcome we must be sure we are properly equiped for battle, otherwise instead of being overcomers we shall be overcome. We must put on the whole armour of God.

Ephesians 6:13-18
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, salvation, prayer.

If we lack any of these we will cannot overcome sin.

God bless!

Firstfruits

Pretty much what I've said. We've already been given all things pertaining to life and godliness. If you don't know it and think you need to do something other than believe it, you're missing it.

[Firstfruits]

Pretty much what I've said. We've already been given all things pertaining to life and godliness. If you don't know it and think you need to do something other than believe it, you're missing it.

I agree,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Sirus]

Grace and peace to you Ff!

[Firstfruits]

Grace and peace to you Ff!

Thank you Sirus,

Firstfruits

[Diggindeeper]

I'm amazed at you, Diggindeeper. I'm amazed when I see a Christian quote the word of God exactly, and then say they disagree with it.

The fact is, Paul did not stop at that verse in Romans 7 where he said he hated his sin, but did it anyway. He was explaining how it was under the law. We cannot jerk out one scripture and make it our foundation. He went farther, saying things like this:

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Christ Jesus said just before his death, "IT IS FINISHED!" But if we say we are in Christ, are believers, Christians...there is always a price to pay. One cost to us is that we are expected to do is:

"Lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us..." (Hebrews 12:1)

We are NOT to lay it aside, or leave it at the cross, then pick it back up again and walk back into bondage.

Moses, for example,chose to suffer affliction with the people of God rather than to ENJOY THE PLEASURES OF SIN for a season. So did Joseph.

So it is with us. We, each and every one of us, choose whether or not we walk in the flesh or in the spirit.

[ProjectPeter]

Which passage? I posted 3 verses and mentioned a 4th. You need to spend a little more time and be specific. Do you mean 1John? Great. Then what's your problem?

All I said to Ff was

"Why do you assume someone not having victory over some sins is not serving God from the heart? If we sin we have an advocate. It doesn't say if we sin we need to get an advocate."

What's the problem with that statement? 'I'm guessing... you aren't reading things all that closely' because you then said

"Sinning saints then? Saintly sinners... Christ-like disobedient sinners? Followers of Jesus walking in sin? I mean you know... all of that seems highly problematic when held up to Scripture doesn't it?"

and nobody even indicated or implied any such description. Take a little more time. Read more closely and try not to assume and jump to conclusions your own philosophy may see.

If someone doesn't "have victory over some sin" then that is a person that doesn't have victory over some sin thus practicing some sin and if they are practicing some sin... their father isn't God. Again... isn't that exactly what John says in his first epistle?

Like I said, I read 80% of the thread. I also did key word searches trying to make sure I didn't miss anything. If you would like to point out what I missed, please do, and I'll be more than happen to retract those statements. If not, you are making a false claim.

Read 100 percent of the thread and then you will actually be closer to able to make the case that you didn't miss anything. Also... follow the discussion in context etc. It ain't rocket science. Missing 20 percent... right sure you missed plenty!

[ProjectPeter]

That's only the beginning/part of the gospel. The gospel is not just Jesus dying for your sins. It's also believers being put into the body of Christ to be crucified, dead, buried, and raised with Christ.

Totally and 100 percent agree with you here.

[ProjectPeter]

I agree "It's not just religious terminology... it's biblical terminology" but I'm curious, how can man make and experiential 'old man dying and being raised with Christ' 'religious'?

Not sure that I am understanding your question here.

[ProjectPeter]

So, what you're saying is that Paul proclaimed people needed to stop doing that which even he couldn't stop doing? I understand you believe that in Romans 7 Paul was talking about being under the law when he couldn't stop sinning, but regardless of this opinion there was a time when Paul truly desired to stop sinning but couldn't, and he wasn't just playing games or kidding when he said he didn't know how to stop. So, the only thing you are going to advise someone like Paul is stop sinning when he's already said he can't? Sorry, but that is just not the answer.

VR... Paul was just as zealous for God as a Jew (before Christ) and not sin as the folks he talks about in Romans 10. He thought the ticket to that was in the law. It wasn't. He thought it was in being a Jew and circumcision and sabbath day worship and festivals and etc. etc. It wasn't. It was in Christ where there is no condemnation. Walking in the Spirit freed him from the law and once that happened Paul was able to in fact walk in the Spirit and not the desires of the flesh. Paul DID answer the HOW DO I STOP question and did so very clearly. The answer... Read Romans chapter 8.

[ProjectPeter]

I'm not tossing anything out. I'm not saying those concepts are not true. I'm saying that just throwing out religious terminology is not the answer. Religious folks always like to throw out religious answers without actually explaining what it means. "Walk in the Spirit." Okay, what does that mean? "You have to believe." Okay, believe what? Just throwing out what the church makes into a religious cliche is not going to help anyone understand what you're talking about.

It means, just like Sirus is saying, we must DIE. Don't stop there... now that we die we are raised again, a new creation, crucifying our flesh daily. Again VR and it really is as simple as this.

Ephesians 4:28 Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need.

In other words... very simple... stop stealing. It ain't hard!

Here is an example from that very passage and it answers your "how" question for those that truly have the desire to get it.

Ephesians 4:22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25 ¶Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH, EACH ONE OF YOU, WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.
26 BE ANGRY, AND YET DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
27 and do not give the devil an opportunity.
28 Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need.
29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, that it may give grace to those who hear.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3 ¶But do not let immorality or any impurity or greed even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;
8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

In a nutshell... take these various things and STOP doing the sin and START doing the righteous. You already believe that Jesus Christ was alive, crucified, raised from the dead and living again.... you have repented from your past sins... not walk worthy of that repentance.

I've also mentioned 2 Peter 1: 1-11 and will do so again. Practice that and as Peter promised... YOU WILL NEVER STUMBLE. In doing that you make your call and election sure and if that doesn't answer the "how" for you... not sure that you really even want to know.

[ProjectPeter]

Absolutely!...and most are not even here. They barely even sip colostrum. Scripture calls them carnal.

I explained this already, but let me know if the following is not simple enough. God had to, and did, make is very, very, simple for man.

"So in short, when temptation comes, I believe I already have been crucified with Christ and I am dead and free from sin. I thank Him for this "gospel of the grace of God" and do not sin. This I do with sins I could not overcome for 17 years. Sins that prayer, praise, worship, study etc....had no effect on. It works every time because it is His way of escape.

Col 2:6 says

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:"

Galatians 3:2-3 asked

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

We walk by faith right? So why do we talk about study, prayer, and seeking Him when we have already found Him and He just tells us to believe the gospel? Believing the gospel all day every day is walking in the Spirit. Bringing your position in Christ into your experience -by faith- is walking in your Spirit-ual position. Why do we think anything we do other than believing in what He already did is going to set us free? The fact is we know it does not. After praying a thousand prayers and still performing the sin ought to be a clue, don't ya think? All He has asked me to do is believe/obey the gospel. To walk everyday all day by faith.

The problem with brakelite's post is "death to self" which is not a concept found in Scripture, and "asking the Lord to put that old man to death in Jesus" when He already has 2000 years ago. The post is very close though."

Live as one alive from the dead. Just believe you are, right now and when tempted, dead.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

The following verses say you have put off the old and put on the new.

Just believe what God said. You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Like God told Abraham his dead body was alive to produce seed and Abraham believed God, we believe our old man (flesh) is dead and raised to a new life (Spirit). How must easier can it get? It's not hard at all. Just believe the gospel!

Have I not explained how?

I already said 'we know' because 'relationship'. Jesus crucified and reconciled us, then put His Spirit in us for a walk.

• "the newborn on milk is reconciled and has a relationship with God"
• "It is because of reconciliation and relationship the new man can......."
• "telling those that are already reconciled and in relationship with God to be reconciled and in relationship with God doesn't help"

I wanted to zero in on this. It's true, but there's a big 'relationship/fellowship' movement in christianity that presents another gospel, making a list of 'do's' (law) and calling it a relationship. It focuses on various religious acts for sanctification and leaves our positional sanctification in heaven (spirit/position). Instead of believing the gospel and bringing our sanctification into our experience -by faith- (Jesus said "sanctified by faith that is in me" and scripture says "ye are sanctified"), it teaches we participate in our sanctification through religious acts -laws to have a relationship. I'm not saying you are saying this.....I don't know.

Being in relationship and not believing your death, burial, and resurrection with Christ is to be experiential 'by faith', will not set you free. It helps, just as other religions do, but it is not the gospel -the power of God to them that are saved. You can't be free because of relationship alone. You need the complete and finished work of the cross, that is made effectual by faith.

What is relationship alone going to do for you? You gonna pray, read the word, go to church? That's gonna set you free w/o Christ crucified (ye are dead by the body of Christ)? Explain to me how this would work, exactly!

Sounds a lot like the Bob George type greasy grace stuff or Swaggart's whatever he calls it stuff!

One can "believe" they are in the Spirit from now till death but if they are walking (doing) deeds of the flesh... they ain't in the Spirit... not even by faith. They are in the flesh.

[Sirus]

If someone doesn't "have victory over some sin" then that is a person that doesn't have victory over some sin thus practicing some sin and if they are practicing some sin... their father isn't God. Again... isn't that exactly what John says in his first epistle?

No, actually it's not. It's impossible to read John telling believers
" My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
and conclude the believers, that have an advocate, Father is not God.

Read 100 percent of the thread and then you will actually be closer to able to make the case that you didn't miss anything. Also... follow the discussion in context etc. It ain't rocket science. Missing 20 percent... right sure you missed plenty!

I did read 100% and as I suspected I didn't miss anything. Again, if you'd like to show otherwise, be my guest.