Christian Girl Not Allowed to Graduate

[Pilgrimtozion]

Check out this story on Christianpost.com regarding a girl who is not allowed to graduate because of her Christian beliefs:

http://www.christianpost.com/article...ate/index.html

She is being asked to change her beliefs and only then will they allow her to graduate! Unbelievable! What do you think?

[teddyv]

Taken completely on the face of this article it sounds pretty ridiculous, but there may be a bit more going on here.

[HisLeast]

I had a sociology professor in university that was very, VERY secular.

At the beginning of the year he gave us a warning. He stated that we would be taught and tested on what the best research showed. He stated that year after year Christian students voice to him how offended they are that their opinions weren't validated. So his warning was thus: "Stop crying about it and show me better research"

Maybe that's a particularly gruff way of saying it, but I can't thank him enough for that warning. It made me study way harder in that class. It made me think a lot harder, and realize that indignation in a paper bag is worth precisely the same value as an empty paper bag. Academia was never going to conform itself to my opinion just because my opinion was dearly held. All in all, if Christians want fair academic assessment of Christian principles, then we need more Christians in academia. Unfortunately, our Christian culture is decidedly anti-academic.

[teddyv]

I had a sociology professor in university that was very, VERY secular.

At the beginning of the year he gave us a warning. He stated that we would be taught and tested on what the best research showed. He stated that year after year Christian students voice to him how offended they are that their opinions weren't validated. So his warning was thus: "Stop crying about it and show me better research"

Maybe that's a particularly gruff way of saying it, but I can't thank him enough for that warning. It made me study way harder in that class. It made me think a lot harder, and realize that indignation in a paper bag is worth precisely the same value as an empty paper bag. Academia was never going to conform itself to my opinion just because it was dearly held. All in all, if Christians want fair academic assessment of Christian principles, then we need more Christians in academia. Unfortunately, our Christian culture is decidedly anti-academic.

Excellent point and post.

To brag a bit, my wife did a Master's degree (Education) a few years back at a secular university. In her final papers she unabashedly incorporated her Christian view into the mix, but maintained full writing standards and examined the existing research. Both of the profs who marked her papers were practically gushing over the papers she wrote and were encouganging her to look to continue to do a Ph.D.

[RabbiKnife]

Christianity and its truth is perfectly capable of handling itself in the realm of ideas.

As I read the article, what the faculty is asking her to do is to continue her training. It appears that she is unable to effectively counsel those with whom she has an aversion based on her religious beliefs. They are not telling her that she can't be a Christian or that she can't be a counsellor. They are saying that she has not demonstrated the ability to counsel effectively those that do not share her beliefs.

I just went and read the Code of Ethics of the American Counseling Association. There is absolutely nothing in there that is contrary to a Christian.

My guess is that she is very conservative, very vocal, and has not learned how to be as innocent as a dove and wise as a serpent.

IF she wants to be licensed, then she needs to understand and abide by the guidelines of the licensing authority. If she wants the benefit of the organization, she has to abide by the rules.

It appears that she, like many sincere believers, has not yet learned how to hate the sin without crucifying the sinner.

As was said, there is more under the surface here than just the lawsuit.

[Jeanne D]

Christianity and its truth is perfectly capable of handling itself in the realm of ideas.

As I read the article, what the faculty is asking her to do is to continue her training. It appears that she is unable to effectively counsel those with whom she has an aversion based on her religious beliefs. They are not telling her that she can't be a Christian or that she can't be a counsellor. They are saying that she has not demonstrated the ability to counsel effectively those that do not share her beliefs.

I just went and read the Code of Ethics of the American Counseling Association. There is absolutely nothing in there that is contrary to a Christian.

My guess is that she is very conservative, very vocal, and has not learned how to be as innocent as a dove and wise as a serpent.

IF she wants to be licensed, then she needs to understand and abide by the guidelines of the licensing authority. If she wants the benefit of the organization, she has to abide by the rules.

It appears that she, like many sincere believers, has not yet learned how to hate the sin without crucifying the sinner.

As was said, there is more under the surface here than just the lawsuit.

Ok but let me ask you, how, as a christian, do you counsel a gay person without bringing your convictions into it? Are we to be silent when it comes to the truth?

Jeanne

[RabbiKnife]

What am I counselling them about? Their gayness? There is no way to know unless you know the issue about which they are seeking counsel.

In counselling a gay person, it would be important to know what they thought about God as this is information you would need to understand how their thought process is working.

Why would you ever need to discuss someone's sexuality in any setting unless their sexuality was an issue they wanted to discuss?

I have gay clients.

I don't say, "Hey, I understand that you're a queer and are going to burn in hell. Now, let's talk about that contract."

But for some reason, some Christians think this is the way to evangelize the homosexual community.

[Jeanne D]

What am I counselling them about? Their gayness? There is no way to know unless you know the issue about which they are seeking counsel.

In counselling a gay person, it would be important to know what they thought about God as this is information you would need to understand how their thought process is working.

Why would you ever need to discuss someone's sexuality in any setting unless their sexuality was an issue they wanted to discuss?

I have gay clients.

I don't say, "Hey, I understand that you're a queer and are going to burn in hell. Now, let's talk about that contract."

But for some reason, some Christians think this is the way to evangelize the homosexual community.

What if a gay person goes for counseling, for whatever reason and mentions being gay, and then asks the counselor what they think about it, what then?
You don't bring up the gay issue out of the blue, but you can let people know that you are a Christian and sooner or later, I'm pretty sure the topic would come up.


Jeanne

[slightlypuzzled]

They are basing their approach on a perceived biases that are not well grounded. I am sorry, but this happens in 'hard sciences' some, but more so in the 'soft sciences' like Psychology and Counseling. As such, the areas of evaluation are more open to 'perceptive and felt' needs from the educators. The standards usually are, what is prevalent in society and does it 'hurt' anyone. Usually, the counselor must not 'harm' but guide the one being counseled, especially in an educational setting. It is this weakness, what is is what is counseled towards, this need to fit in, is what is encouraged. As such, it usually has no place for change, or the minority view; you could well imagine what a racist counselor might suggest to a young minority student....

My point is that they have no real grounds for their demands other than that she does not fit in with what they feel should be the approach that HAS to be used, and this mainly on an emotional response backed by their own ethical standards.

[RabbiKnife]

Counselors should NEVER tell a counselee what they think about a situation. What the counselor believes is immaterial.

The goal of almost all counseling is to help the counselee understand whatever the presenting problem is and learn how to work through that issue.

The topic of one's faith should only come up if the circumstances require that knowledge to be revealed.

If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a Christian counselor, then everyone knows before they ever set the appointment.
If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a secular counselor, then their faith needs to stay in their pocket unless asked, and only then, if the discussion is relevant.

[slightlypuzzled]

They are basing their approach on a perceived biases that are not well grounded. I am sorry, but this happens in 'hard sciences' some, but more so in the 'soft sciences' like Psychology and Counseling. As such, the areas of evaluation are more open to 'perceptive and felt' needs from the educators. The standards usually are, what is prevalent in society and does it 'hurt' anyone. Usually, the counselor must not 'harm' but guide the one being counseled, especially in an educational setting. It is this weakness, what is is what is counseled towards, this need to fit in, is what is encouraged. As such, it usually has no place for change, or the minority view; you could well imagine what a racist counselor might suggest to a young minority student....

My point is that they have no real grounds for their demands other than that she does not fit in with what they feel should be the approach that HAS to be used, and this mainly on an emotional response backed by their own ethical standards.

A big problem with many adolescents is how their own 'personality' or 'sexuality' (many confuse the two, seeing the second as dominate over the first). It is then that a counselor can fall back on what they see as a right way and a wrong way. There are other areas, though, where the approachs overlap and no one seems to notice a difference.

[Jeanne D]

Counselors should NEVER tell a counselee what they think about a situation. What the counselor believes is immaterial.

The goal of almost all counseling is to help the counselee understand whatever the presenting problem is and learn how to work through that issue.

The topic of one's faith should only come up if the circumstances require that knowledge to be revealed.

If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a Christian counselor, then everyone knows before they ever set the appointment.
If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a secular counselor, then their faith needs to stay in their pocket unless asked, and only then, if the discussion is relevant.

Ok fair enough, but if I was a Christian Counselor but didn't advertise as such, I would pray for God to give me the opportunities to share the truth with whomever it was I was counseling, and He would.

Jeanne

[RabbiKnife]

Ok fair enough, but if I was a Christian Counselor but didn't advertise as such, I would pray for God to give me the opportunities to share the truth with whomever it was I was counseling, and He would.

Jeanne

Agreed. You would not believe how many opportunities I have to discuss the faith with clients.

[Pilgrimtozion]

Counselors should NEVER tell a counselee what they think about a situation. What the counselor believes is immaterial.

The goal of almost all counseling is to help the counselee understand whatever the presenting problem is and learn how to work through that issue.

The topic of one's faith should only come up if the circumstances require that knowledge to be revealed.

If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a Christian counselor, then everyone knows before they ever set the appointment.
If a person wants to advertise and hold themselves out as a secular counselor, then their faith needs to stay in their pocket unless asked, and only then, if the discussion is relevant.

The conviction that belief cannot come into the counseling situation is absolutely ludicrous. In your own message, you have made a distinction between Christian and secular - the very distinction the world wants you to make. There is no such distinction, my friend. Anybody carries their beliefs into everything they say, do, and think. That process is inevitable and to ask somebody to not do that is equivalent to not understanding the human makeup. Secularism has been very sneaky is claiming it is void of religion when in fact it is very religious.

[RabbiKnife]

No one asked them not to carry their beliefs into their work.

However, when you present yourself as a non-religious counselor, then your faith has nothing to do with the task that he person is hiring you to do. The social contract includes the representation that if I go to a counselor that I am not subjecting myself to their opinions about my faith unless I ask them about it.

If a Christian cannot do that, then they do not need to be in non-religious counseling settings.