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Thread: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

  1. #1
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    "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pe 4:17)

    Haiti earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 230000 casualties
    Christchurch earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 0 casualties

    Isn't it interesting that no one died in the Christchurch earthquake? No, I'm not assuming that the tribulation will begin next week, but it's hard to miss the symbology of this disaster. As in the judgment of the body of Christ, no-one will be lost.

    Certainly the architecture between the cities explains the difference between the toll of casualties to a certain degree but not all of it proven by several reports of residents surviving barely from being levelled by falling objects.

    These are exciting times!




  2. #2

    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    I'm a little confused here. If judgement must begin at the house of God, shouldn't the people at the church be the casualties?

  3. #3

    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Isn't it interesting that you missed the part where Peter said, "For the time is come [Peter's present tense] that judgment must begin"?

    Peter was speaking to his own day, not to 2009.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Isn't it interesting that you missed the part where Peter said, "For the time is come [Peter's present tense] that judgment must begin"?

    Peter was speaking to his own day, not to 2009.
    Not particularly, if the order of judgment remains the same.
    Sarcasm, that always does interest me though..

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Markedward, do you believe you will not be judged at all?

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Is it possible that other factors came into play, other than just simple divine intervention? Population density, disaster preparedness, geographic location of the quake, timing, warning, etc? Any one of these variables can have monumental effect on the casualty count.

    I'm going to be honest that I find the rating of natural disasters against some metric of Godliness distasteful. I consider it so, because it completely undermines fellowship. Sure, today we can look down our noses at Haiti and say "well, that's what they get for being Godless savages" (in complete ignorance of their culture). But what happens tomorrow when I find out that nagging cough my wife has each day is stage 4 lung cancer and she's got 4 months to live? What happens when my loved ones experience excruciating debilitating physical or emotional trauma? I'll tell you what happens. You go to church and say "just fine thanks" when people ask you how you are. You lie, and you push people away because you KNOW what they think of calamity. They think calamity comes only to those who deserve it.

    The Haiti incident was really one of the straws that broke the camels back for me when it comes to "fellowship" with other Christians.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Here's the the translation:

    For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    The verse in question is not in present tense in the original text, or am I mistaken?

    Seeking:

    Referring to John 5:22, it is Christ who judges the Church, his Body. Therefore I think of the opposite.

    HisLeast:

    I had no other purpose to use the Haiti earthquake as a comparison than to point out that usually strong earthquakes in urban areas cause deaths, and because it was a recent one so that most people remember it. If you had read my post, you would have noticed that I said that the different architectures of the cities explained the difference in the number of casualties to a certain degree.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by forum lurker View Post
    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pe 4:17)

    Haiti earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 230000 casualties
    Christchurch earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 0 casualties

    Isn't it interesting that no one died in the Christchurch earthquake? No, I'm not assuming that the tribulation will begin next week, but it's hard to miss the symbology of this disaster. As in the judgment of the body of Christ, no-one will be lost.

    Certainly the architecture between the cities explains the difference between the toll of casualties to a certain degree but not all of it proven by several reports of residents surviving barely from being levelled by falling objects.

    These are exciting times!



    Its exciting to see people, babies and children crushed to death? I am not getting your point...sorry...
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    Its exciting to see people, babies and children crushed to death? I am not getting your point...sorry...
    moonglow, nobody was crushed to death in Christchurch.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    I will keep watching for signs as Jesus commanded, even though it seems most people would prefer not to do so. I'm sorry, but there will be no apologizes!

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by forum lurker View Post
    Here's the the translation:

    For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    The verse in question is not in present tense in the original text, or am I mistaken?
    "The time is come" would very much be present tense.

    I will keep watching for signs as Jesus commanded, even though it seems most people would prefer not to do so. I'm sorry, but there will be no apologizes!
    Where did you found a passage where Jesus commanded to watch for signs?

    Raybob

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybob View Post
    "The time is come" would very much be present tense.
    Right, but is the "is come" in the original script?

    NIV translation would indicate a present and a future tense, or a timeless one or however it should be described:

    17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

    That is, if you feel the KJV translation can't apply to the modern times and God has changed his order of judgment.

    Where did you found a passage where Jesus commanded to watch for signs?

    Raybob
    For example in the Olivet Discourse where the disciples asked Jesus what signs they should look for, and Jesus gave a rather lengthy list.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Pe 4:17)
    Haiti earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 230000 casualties
    Christchurch earthquake: Magnitude 7.0 MW - 0 casualties

    Isn't it interesting that no one died in the Christchurch earthquake? No, I'm not assuming that the tribulation will begin next week, but it's hard to miss the symbology of this disaster. As in the judgment of the body of Christ, no-one will be lost.

    Certainly the architecture between the cities explains the difference between the toll of casualties to a certain degree but not all of it proven by several reports of residents surviving barely from being levelled by falling objects.

    These are exciting times

    The people in the church in the example above may have escaped death this time, but sooner or later they will face physical death - no one will get out of this world alive unless the Lord comes first.

    In the physical sense, we are equal....God shows no favoritism. Yet, in the spiritual sense....we are special, the elect, sanctified etc.

    My opinion of the meaning of the listed scripture is that the Judgment of God's people does indeed begin and continues daily - we are all sinners (physically) and will have to pay the price (God is not mocked, we reap what we sow)(Gal 6:7).

    However, the good news is that on the Great Judgment Day, Christians will not have to give an account of the deeds done in the flesh, because they've already had their judgment while living in the flesh. God has forgiven and forgotten.....and I sure don't want to remind Him.

    Heb 8:12. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.

    We will, of course, stand before God on the Judgment Day but it is to get our reward. In fact, we are instructed to have confidence, when we do.

    I John 4:17. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.

    If I knew I had to give an account of all the sins I've committed and thought, I would have no JOY as a Christian.
    ___________________________________________
    I'm just a nobody telling everybody about somebody who can save anybody

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by forum lurker View Post
    Right, but is the "is come" in the original script?

    NIV translation would indicate a present and a future tense, or a timeless one or however it should be described:

    17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?...
    I don't see any difference in tense between "it is time" and "the time is come". "It is.." is clearly present tense.

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    Re: "Judgment must begin at the house of God"

    Quote Originally Posted by sudds View Post
    However, the good news is that on the Great Judgment Day, Christians will not have to give an account of the deeds done in the flesh, because they've already had their judgment while living in the flesh. God has forgiven and forgotten.....and I sure don't want to remind Him...
    The bible disagrees with you.

    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
    (2Co 5:10)

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