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Thread: Demons destroyed by water

  1. #1

    Demons destroyed by water

    I was reading a book titled The Lost Gospel Q, which provides the reconstructed text of the so-called Q gospel (the hypothetical "sayings gospel", which was allegedly the 'source' of the common material found in Matthew and Luke, but not in Mark).

    It gets to Q39 (Saying 39), which is parallel to Matthew 12.43-45 and Luke 11.24-26:
    "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation."
    Some of the sayings have a tidbit of relevant information about first-century Judea. The tidbit that goes with this saying reads as follows:
    In Jewish folklore, demons and spirits could be destroyed by water, so they roamed the desert looking for a resting place.
    Now, I haven't checked into the authenticity of this claim (it is given without sources cited), but it is interesting nonetheless. As I read it, a different event in the gospels came to mind. Namely, the account of the demon(s) Legion, found in Mark 5.1-15 and Luke 8.26-35. The portion I specifically have in mind is the following:
    And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion, for we are many." And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, "Send us to the pigs; let us enter them." So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the pigs, and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and were drowned in the sea.
    Whether or not the "Jewish folklore" above is literally true (about demons being destroyed by water), could it be possible that we are essentially being told that Legion attempted to escape judgment by begging to be cast into swine, but was destroyed anyway, the literal action of the demon-possessed pigs drowning in water figuratively displaying the (eventual?) destruction of the demons?

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    The Flood comes to mind. That is, if you believe Gen 6:1-8 to be about fallen angels and the need to be destroyed by water.

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    I was reading a book titled The Lost Gospel Q, which provides the reconstructed text of the so-called Q gospel (the hypothetical "sayings gospel", which was allegedly the 'source' of the common material found in Matthew and Luke, but not in Mark).

    It gets to Q39 (Saying 39), which is parallel to Matthew 12.43-45 and Luke 11.24-26:
    "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation."
    Some of the sayings have a tidbit of relevant information about first-century Judea. The tidbit that goes with this saying reads as follows:
    In Jewish folklore, demons and spirits could be destroyed by water, so they roamed the desert looking for a resting place.
    Now, I haven't checked into the authenticity of this claim (it is given without sources cited), but it is interesting nonetheless. As I read it, a different event in the gospels came to mind. Namely, the account of the demon(s) Legion, found in Mark 5.1-15 and Luke 8.26-35. The portion I specifically have in mind is the following:
    And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion, for we are many." And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, "Send us to the pigs; let us enter them." So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the pigs, and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and were drowned in the sea.
    Whether or not the "Jewish folklore" above is literally true (about demons being destroyed by water), could it be possible that we are essentially being told that Legion attempted to escape judgment by begging to be cast into swine, but was destroyed anyway, the literal action of the demon-possessed pigs drowning in water figuratively displaying the (eventual?) destruction of the demons?
    Puts an interesting spin om baptism, huh?

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    This is interesting, MarkEdward -- but I personally have a real prioblem with people putting a figurative spin on a literal account.

    If demons are destroyed by water, then why did the demon continue to cast the boy into the water in Mt. 17:15...I know he cast him into the fire also. If the demon was trying to destroy himself, then wouldn't this also indicate that fire destroys demons as well?

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    I was reading a book titled The Lost Gospel Q, which provides the reconstructed text of the so-called Q gospel (the hypothetical "sayings gospel", which was allegedly the 'source' of the common material found in Matthew and Luke, but not in Mark).

    It gets to Q39 (Saying 39), which is parallel to Matthew 12.43-45 and Luke 11.24-26:
    "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation."
    Some of the sayings have a tidbit of relevant information about first-century Judea. The tidbit that goes with this saying reads as follows:
    In Jewish folklore, demons and spirits could be destroyed by water, so they roamed the desert looking for a resting place.
    Now, I haven't checked into the authenticity of this claim (it is given without sources cited), but it is interesting nonetheless. As I read it, a different event in the gospels came to mind. Namely, the account of the demon(s) Legion, found in Mark 5.1-15 and Luke 8.26-35. The portion I specifically have in mind is the following:
    And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion, for we are many." And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, "Send us to the pigs; let us enter them." So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the pigs, and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and were drowned in the sea.
    Whether or not the "Jewish folklore" above is literally true (about demons being destroyed by water), could it be possible that we are essentially being told that Legion attempted to escape judgment by begging to be cast into swine, but was destroyed anyway, the literal action of the demon-possessed pigs drowning in water figuratively displaying the (eventual?) destruction of the demons?
    If they'e destroyed by water, why is it they're all going to end up in the lake of fire?

  6. #6

    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ
    If demons are destroyed by water, then why did the demon continue to cast the boy into the water in Mt. 17:15...
    I think this soundly contradicts to "Jewish folklore". Thanks for this.

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    I don't think anyone has ever found "Q" and some scholars say there is no such thing as "Q." I would be really careful about reading the "other gospels."

    I have never found anyone, however religious and devout who did not sometimes experience withdrawal of grace, or feel a lessening of devotion. -Thomas a Kempis

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    The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. -A.W. Tozer

  8. #8

    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    1. The existence of Q is beside the point of this thread. This thread was explicitly stated to be about a "Jewish folklore" that demons could be destroyed by water. Respond in context or don't respond.
    2. You have no need to tell me to "be really careful" simply because I said I was reading about the Q document. You don't know why I'm reading this book, you don't know what I'm doing with this knowledge, so, please, cease from exhorting me on something which I explicitly displayed my doubts about (e.g. "the so-called Q gospel", "the hypothetical 'sayings gospel'", "allegedly the 'source' of the common material").

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    WOW You know what?
    There is no need to be a huge jerk. I was trying to be helpful.
    And just so you know: YOU specifically are one of the reasons I quit coming to this board. I have been posting again for one week and you have already made a rude comment.
    This is supposed to be a place of discussion, if you can't discuss things peacefully and just overlook comments you don't like, then maybe you shouldn't post.
    I am SO SORRY that I made the assumption that there might be things you didn't know. I am SO SORRY that I very carefully made a small note, that you should be vigilant in what you read. From now on I will assume you know every thing and don't need any help from me at all.

    I have never found anyone, however religious and devout who did not sometimes experience withdrawal of grace, or feel a lessening of devotion. -Thomas a Kempis

    If You Need Help, Ask God. If You Don't, Thank God. -Unknown


    The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. -A.W. Tozer

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved by God View Post
    WOW You know what?
    There is no need to be a huge jerk. I was trying to be helpful.
    And just so you know: YOU specifically are one of the reasons I quit coming to this board. I have been posting again for one week and you have already made a rude comment.
    This is supposed to be a place of discussion, if you can't discuss things peacefully and just overlook comments you don't like, then maybe you shouldn't post.
    I am SO SORRY that I made the assumption that there might be things you didn't know. I am SO SORRY that I very carefully made a small note, that you should be vigilant in what you read. From now on I will assume you know every thing and don't need any help from me at all.

    From now on I will assume you know every thing and don't need any help from me at all.
    To stick my nose where it doesn't belong; I noticed that your previous comment in this thread doesn't offer any help. Rather, it's (1) a suggestion that 'Q' does not exist and (2) a warning to be weary of other Gospels. Regardless of markedwards reply, perhaps it might be an idea to think about if mark's reply was warranted, given the reply (i.e., it was off topic). I can see how you think you were trying to be helpful, but I don't think this kind of response to mark does any good, considering you seem to be very offended.

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Whether or not the "Jewish folklore" above is literally true (about demons being destroyed by water), could it be possible that we are essentially being told that Legion attempted to escape judgment by begging to be cast into swine, but was destroyed anyway, the literal action of the demon-possessed pigs drowning in water figuratively displaying the (eventual?) destruction of the demons?
    I will say this Mark... couple years ago, legion was IDed through discernment by prayer and when named and confronted in Jesus' name during a deliverance of a person seeking a deliverance... that demon manifested and answered to it's name. We then cast it out of the person. It's not destroyed per your theory for this thread.

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

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  12. #12

    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    See Post 6. (Please note that I did use the word "eventual", that is, guaranteed... not necessarily immediate.)

    I have a question regarding the exorcism you personally witnessed: While the demon answered to "Legion", is there anything you saw or heard that necessitate that it was the same demon mentioned in Scripture? We, after all, have many names in common... might it not also be possible for demons to share names in common, or simply to answer to whatever names you directed at it?

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by Xel'Naga View Post
    To stick my nose where it doesn't belong; I noticed that your previous comment in this thread doesn't offer any help. Rather, it's (1) a suggestion that 'Q' does not exist and (2) a warning to be weary of other Gospels. Regardless of markedwards reply, perhaps it might be an idea to think about if mark's reply was warranted, given the reply (i.e., it was off topic). I can see how you think you were trying to be helpful, but I don't think this kind of response to mark does any good, considering you seem to be very offended.
    So, what you're saying is that it's okay to be rude and nasty to our fellow brothers and sisters if their responses aren't helpful.

  14. #14

    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    You have no need to tell me to "be really careful" simply because I said I was reading about the Q document. You don't know why I'm reading this book, you don't know what I'm doing with this knowledge, so, please, cease from exhorting me on something which I explicitly displayed my doubts about (e.g. "the so-called Q gospel", "the hypothetical 'sayings gospel'", "allegedly the 'source' of the common material").
    Well, you may have no need of a warning, but other people reading your post may have that need.

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    Re: Demons destroyed by water

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder4Christ View Post
    So, what you're saying is that it's okay to be rude and nasty to our fellow brothers and sisters if their responses aren't helpful.
    I'm saying it does no good to reply hastily, especially if one is offended (the tendency is to reply in like manner, indeed, worse). That applies to everyone. I only came into the thread after Beloved By God had posted, and since s/he went (as I read it), the extra-step, that's who I replied to.

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