Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Get over yourself, buster. There isn't a "fact" you have brought out that I haven't AT THE LEAST confronted. I simply made light and fun of yours and others constant referral to the Greek to TRY and prove a point. YOU were the one that had to try and knock me down for it. If you wish to continue this NEW thread of "Let's make fun of Jandl and everybody else who agrees with him about scholarship," then indeed, create a new thread. I wasn't the one WANTING to derail this thread. This is supposed to be about wine.

I'm sure you're long gone after taking such a (justified) beating, but a simple question comes to mind. Since you disregard scholarship, where is the "plain English" reading of grape juice?

[Pillar]

I'm sure you're long gone after taking such a (justified) beating, but a simple question comes to mind. Since you disregard scholarship, where is the "plain English" reading of grape juice?

I'll help out with this one. Here is the "English Language" definition of wine.

A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various kinds of grapes, usually containing from 10 to 15 percent alcohol by volume. A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various other fruits or plants. Something that intoxicates or exhilarates.

So the English Bible translators got it right. Which is why they didn't write grape juice in the Bible in place of wine, or οἶνος in the Greek.

1 Timothy 3:8 for example, would not make sense if it said "not given to much grape juice" Or if the Bible said "Be not drunk with grape juice", it would not make much sense either?

Simply put, the grape juice argument in scripture makes no sense whatsoever, which is why the English Bible translators used wine instead of grape juice in their translations as well. And I have already given the English dictionary definition of wine, so even English speaking people can't try and argue with it.

It's no big secret what wine is in any language.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'll help out with this one. Here is the "English Language" definition of wine.

A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various kinds of grapes, usually containing from 10 to 15 percent alcohol by volume. A beverage made of the fermented juice of any of various other fruits or plants. Something that intoxicates or exhilarates.

So the English Bible translators got it right. Which is why they didn't write grape juice in the Bible in place of wine, or οἶνος in the Greek.

1 Timothy 3:8 for example, would not make sense if it said "not given to much grape juice" Or if the Bible said "Be not drunk with grape juice", it would not make much sense either?

Simply put, the grape juice argument in scripture makes no sense whatsoever, which is why the English Bible translators used wine instead of grape juice in their translations as well. And I have already given the English dictionary definition of wine, so even English speaking people can't try and argue with it.

It's no big secret what wine is in any language.

Exactly my point. We're preaching to the choir at this point.

[Pillar]

Exactly my point. We're preaching to the choir at this point.

Lol, we are indeed.

But it's just a fun secondary Biblical issue, so no harm in some Christians thinking that wine is evil, because avoiding wine is the smartest thing for people to do anyway, unless they are using it for medicinal purposes like a natural blood thinner for example(glass of wine at dinner). I have had, and still have several alcoholics in my family, so I know how dangerous alcohol can be if abused. Alcohol is not evil, but abusing it is. Alcohol can be used for medecinal purposes if used correctly. But alchhol, just like any other drug, prescription or otherwise, can be highly dangerous if abused. This is why scripture never condones "drug abuse". But scripture does not "condemn" medicine either. And alcohol is medicine if used properly.

So my points in this thread are not condoning alcohol abuse according to scripture, but rather showing that alcohol is no evil according to scripture either. Drunkenness is the sin, and using alcohol does not make a person an alcoholic or a drunk. Because most everybody on these forums I would wager uses medications that have alcohol in them at one time another, and they have given them to their children as well. But we don't abuse them to get intoxicated. We use them according to the guidelines on the labels, and according to what scripture says, to make sure we don't abuse them.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Lol, we are indeed.

But it's just a fun secondary Biblical issue, so no harm in some Christians thinking that wine is evil, because avoiding wine is the smartest thing for people to do anyway, unless they are using it for medicinal purposes like a natural blood thinner for example(glass of wine at dinner). I have had, and still have several alcoholics in my family, so I know how dangerous alcohol can be if abused. Alcohol is not evil, but abusing it is. Alcohol can be used for medecinal purposes if used correctly. But alchhol, just like any other drug, prescription or otherwise, can be highly dangerous if abused. This is why scripture never condones "drug abuse". But scripture does not "condemn" medicine either. And alcohol is medicine if used properly.

So my points in this thread are not condoning alcohol abuse according to scripture, but rather showing that alcohol is no evil according to scripture either. Drunkenness is the sin, and using alcohol does not make a person an alcoholic or a drunk. Because most everybody on these forums I would wager uses medications that have alcohol in them at one time another, and they have given them to their children as well. But we don't abuse them to get intoxicated. We use them according to the guidelines on the labels, and according to what scripture says, to make sure we don't abuse them.

Some feel we are justifying alcohol consumption. I'm a total lifetime abstainer from all fruit of the vine in any form, much like the Nazarite vow. It's a personal dedication that is non-compulsory. I'm the last one who would be taking a position based on consumption bias.

If only gluttony got such attention as moderate alcohol intake. It is likely responsible for more health issues and death than alcohol. That's too universal, though. Gotta focus on those winebibbers while gorging at the buffet.

[Servant89]

Some feel we are justifying alcohol consumption. I'm a total lifetime abstainer from all fruit of the vine in any form, much like the Nazarite vow. It's a personal dedication that is non-compulsory. I'm the last one who would be taking a position based on consumption bias.

If only gluttony got such attention as moderate alcohol intake. It is likely responsible for more health issues and death than alcohol. That's too universal, though. Gotta focus on those winebibbers while gorging at the buffet.

And the choir shouts AMEN!

Shalom

[Pillar]

If only gluttony got such attention as moderate alcohol intake. It is likely responsible for more health issues and death than alcohol. That's too universal, though. Gotta focus on those winebibbers while gorging at the buffet.

Lol, Since 63% of Americans are either overweight, or obese, gluttony will not be condemned from behind the pulpits. You make the overweight people mad over their gluttony sin, and the pews will be empty every Sunday. This would not be a wise move for American churches. Best to pick on the beer/wine drinkers and cigarette smokers instead.

[MaryFreeman]

Paul tells Timothy to stop drinking water. Why? Beside the obvious reason that he had stomach troubles. 1 Tim 5:23 "Drink no longer water"

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"Somebody poisoned the waterhole!"

[BDBen]

Havent' read any of this my two sense is... How does it effect your witness? Just like when Paul was talking about eating meat and it being involved with making another christian "weaker" in the faith. If it is a stumbling block to a brother in christ it probably doesn't behoove to not only avoid drinking around them but to avoid if at all possible.

And Yes I do drink a decent bit of wine. I just pick my christian friends selectively... lol. ( Now that is actually a joke)

[MaryFreeman]

Havent' read any of this my two sense is... How does it effect your witness? Just like when Paul was talking about eating meat and it being involved with making another christian "weaker" in the faith. If it is a stumbling block to a brother in christ it probably doesn't behoove to not only avoid drinking around them but to avoid if at all possible.

And Yes I do drink a decent bit of wine. I just pick my christian friends selectively... lol. ( Now that is actually a joke)

Your answer.... Of course.... Is how everyone SHOULD view it....

[BDBen]

Your answer.... Of course.... Is how everyone SHOULD view it....

Sorry I'll try to be more... "destructive to the body of Christ"... let me think on how I should do that.



....Wait a second... nevermind I'll leave the first answer

[MaryFreeman]

Sorry I'll try to be more... "destructive to the body of Christ"... let me think on how I should do that.



....Wait a second... nevermind I'll leave the first answer

LOL.... ........

[Firefighter]

Lol, Since 63% of Americans are either overweight, or obese, gluttony will not be condemned from behind the pulpits. You make the overweight people mad over their gluttony sin, and the pews will be empty every Sunday. This would not be a wise move for American churches. Best to pick on the beer/wine drinkers and cigarette smokers instead.

I will preach against gluttony just as fast as I do drunkenness. I have never cared who's toes I have stepped on.

[MaryFreeman]

I will preach against gluttony just as fast as I do drunkenness. I have never cared who's toes I have stepped on.

Some toes need to be stepped on.... It makes purifying hearts easier....

[Firefighter]

Last Sunday, I must have REALLY stepped on some toes. I had a guy walk up after the service and blast me for over 5 solid minutes telling me how much he hated my sermon...