Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[notuptome]

Can someone please, please, please show us the verse in the Bible that commands Christians to practice total abstinence from alcohol?

I am sorry, I apologize, that was mean. My bad.

Shalom

Hebrews 8:10

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Frecs]

Hebrews 8:10

For the cause of Christ
Roger

How is that a command to totally abstain? It's not even a command to partially abstain!

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[sheina maidle]

Can someone please, please, please show us the verse in the Bible that commands Christians to practice total abstinence from alcohol?

I am sorry, I apologize, that was mean. My bad.

Shalom

Check these verse out in context:

Thompson Chain Topics
Total Abstinence
(from Strong Drink)

Enjoined upon the Priests
Leviticus 10:9

Law from the Nazarites
Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4

The Wise Man's Injunction
Proverbs 23:31

Rule for Kings
Proverbs 31:4

The Law of the Rechabites
Jeremiah 35:6

Daniel's Temperance Principles
Daniel 1:8; 10:3;

John the Baptist a Total Abstainer
Luke 1:15; Matthew 11:18

Brotherly Love Demands
Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 8:13

Total abstinence? You decide.

[Pillar]

Lol, the Apostles were accused of being drunk on grape juice in Acts chapter 2. After all, Jews only drank gape juice during the feast of weeks(Shavuot or Pentacost). Wonder why they were accused of being drunk, if only grape juice was traditionally drunk during the feast of weeks by the Jews?

[CommanderRobey]

Lol, the Apostles were accused of being drunk on grape juice in Acts chapter 2. After all, Jews only drank gape juice during the feast of weeks(Shavuot or Pentacost). Wonder why they were accused of being drunk, if only grape juice was traditionally drunk during the feast of weeks by the Jews?

NOtice Scripture says those accusing the apostles of being drunk were mocking. They did not acutally believe the apostles were drunk, they were being sarcastic.

They knew new wine did not have the ability to intoxicate. They knew that new wine was found in the cluster while it was on the vine (Isaiah 65:8) and in the winevats after the grapes had been freshly pressed. (Proverbs 3:10)

The scoffers admitted that the apostles drank new wine; that which could not be fermented because it was freshly pressed.

[Servant89]

Are you saying you find nobility in being a rebel? For the cause of Christ Roger

The disciples of Jesus did not wash their hands before eating. The pharisees were teaching commandments of men requiring people to follow the commandment to the priest and only before going to the temple (of washing hands). When the church teaches a commandment of man as if it came from God, the Bible declares those people to have their heart far from God and their worship is in vain. For that reason I purposely would have refused to eat with washed hands, to show God "homey don't play that game", meaning I don't dance to the tune of commandments of men. The same thing for total abstinence from alcohol. Every year I drink a glass of wine and as I raise my glass to heaven I say: "Not me Lord, not me, I do not practice total abstinence from alcohol, not me!"

Yes, when it comes to commandments of men that are preached as it they are the commandments of God, I am a rebel. Yes sir I am.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Thompson Chain Topics
Total Abstinence
(from Strong Drink)

Enjoined upon the Priests Leviticus 10:9 (dont you get it? This is the second commandment to the priests before entering the tabernacle, the first one was washing of the hands and the pharisees told the people that requirement was for everyone all the time and the Bible (Mat 15 Mark 7) states God hates when people do that, i.e., taking the place of God by teaching as doctrines commandments of men.)

Law from the Nazarites
Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4 (this is a voluntary offering, not a law. Practicing total abstinence is something good, teaching it as a law means someone took the place of God.)

The Wise Man's Injunction Proverbs 23:31 (yes, drinking wine in excess is as bad as eating meat in excess, are you vegetarian?) Jesus ate meat and drank wine. Is anyone holier than Jesus here?

Rule for Kings Proverbs 31:4 (see above)

The Law of the Rechabites Jeremiah 35:6 (the prophet sent by God told them to drink wine, does God tempt people? No. It was not a sin if they had obeyed the prophet of God. But yes, it was a better thing to do to practice total abstince from alcohol in that particular case, as a free will offering BECAUSE they were honoring their parents, not because it was a law of God. This vow from the Rechabites also included never to buy land but to live in tents with their families in public land. Tell me, do you live in a tent or do you own a house? Because if you live in a house and not a tent, you should not be quoting Thompson Chain without knowing the Word).

Daniel's Temperance Principles Daniel 1:8; 10:3; (Daniel's temperance principle included total abstinence from meat, again I ask, Are you vegetarian? Are you holier than Jesus? Jesus ate meat.)

John the Baptist a Total Abstainer Luke 1:15; Matthew 11:18 (Do you eat bugs? Is God calling each one of us to eat bugs?)

Brotherly Love Demands Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 8:13 (If I go to India to preach, I will be vegetarian while I am there, but why be vegetarian on the internet? We are here to find out what is the truth).

I will say it again, I rather be drunk than self righteous. I have decided, some in the Bible practiced total abstinence BUT NOT BECAUSE THERE WAS A LAW.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hebrews 8:10

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So, if I invent something new that is not in the Bible, just because I feel it in my heart, that makes it "from God"?

Shalom

[notuptome]

I will say it again, I rather be drunk than self righteous. I have decided, some in the Bible practiced total abstinence BUT NOT BECAUSE THERE WAS A LAW.

Shalom

As believers under the new covenant we are not under the law. I have not said that abstaining from alcohol was a legal requirement for beleivers. The point of Heb 8:10 is that believers have a new standard of conduct not constrained by the Mosaic law. The rebel heart is concerned with what it wants. The surrendered heart seeks Christ in all things. Amos 3:3 says Can two walk together except they be agreed. It is evident we are going to tread different paths on this matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Free Indeed]

Practically all liturgical churches use wine as the Sacrament. Paul admonished Timotheus to "take a little wine for his stomach", emphasizing the well-documented medicinal value of wine. The Lord himself turned water into wine at a wedding party.

I think it is clear from both scripture and tradition that the *responsible* drinking of spirited beverages is allowed.

[notuptome]

Practically all liturgical churches use wine as the Sacrament.

I have no sympathy for the liturgical churches as they all preach false doctrine.

Paul admonished Timotheus to "take a little wine for his stomach", emphasizing the well-documented medicinal value of wine.

Paul had to tell Timothy to stop drinking water. If he were already drinking wine he would not have need to instruction to stop.

The Lord himself turned water into wine at a wedding party.

If the Lord provided wine for the men to become drunk was He not a willing participtant in their sin of drunkeness? Would that not have been sin on His behalf?

I think it is clear from both scripture and tradition that the *responsible* drinking of spirited beverages is allowed.

Tolerated is one thing advocated is another. Medicinal purposes certainly, recreational useage not so certain. Certainly as believer priests in the NT we have a responsibility in our duties to set the highest standard or be remiss in our obligations to the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Amos_with_goats]

...If the Lord provided wine for the men to become drunk was He not a willing participtant in their sin of drunkeness? Would that not have been sin on His behalf?...

Roger,

I believe the disconnect here is the idea that wine = sin. Yes, if this postulate were accurate then Christ would be guilty of sin. We know, however, that Christ was tempted in all ways and yet was without sin... therefore wine can not = sin.

Drunkenness does = sin. THere is a distinction, as has been put forth in the first several pages of this thread.

I understand, and I respect your position. I HONOR your desire for holiness, and frankly I respect the character I see in your posts here.

I do not believe, that your current understanding that all consumption of wine is sinful is scriptural. Should you and I ever have the temporal opportunity to break bread I would do so with grape juice. FWIW, I would greatly desire that to be so.

[notuptome]

Roger,

I believe the disconnect here is the idea that wine = sin. Yes, if this postulate were accurate then Christ would be guilty of sin. We know, however, that Christ was tempted in all ways and yet was without sin... therefore wine can not = sin.

Drunkenness does = sin. THere is a distinction, as has been put forth in the first several pages of this thread.

I understand, and I respect your position. I HONOR your desire for holiness, and frankly I respect the character I see in your posts here.

I do not believe, that your current understanding that all consumption of wine is sinful is scriptural. Should you and I ever have the temporal opportunity to break bread I would do so with grape juice. FWIW, I would greatly desire that to be so.

There must then be a wine that is a wine not unto sin.

If we see Christ as impeccable then we must consider the wine He made for the marriage feast to be better than all the previous wine and yet not contributing to their drunkeness. It was in fact water that tasted better than wine. I tend to think it had no alcohol content. Perhaps we'll share a glass at the marriage feast of the Lamb.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[CommanderRobey]

The Word of God tells us that the guests of the wedding feast had already well drunk. They had drank abundantly of the wine that the governor of the feast had provided. Had that wine been an alcoholic wine, the guests would have been well on their way to drunkenness prior to drinking the wine (approximately 120-150 gallons) that Jesus provided for them.

He indeed would have been adding to their drunkienness had the wine He made been alcoholic in nature. This would have made Him just as much a sinner as the man He came to save.

Jesus came to save man from his sin, not aid him in it. The wine He made was of the purest nature, free from intoxicants that would lead to drunkenness.


Jesus would never give to man a poison to put in his mouth that could steal away his brain.

[Free Indeed]

I have no sympathy for the liturgical churches as they all preach false doctrine.

This, of course, is not true.