Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

If there was no fermented wine, wasn't the Nazarite Vow repetitively redundantly superfluous?

[Frecs]

Question: Why is it that total abstainers from wine (we have lots of those in my church), why is it that they have no problem getting in line for an all you can eat buffet with ribs and crab legs?

Because gluttony is fun AND "no one gets hurt" AND when was the last time you heard a Pastor preach against gluttony????? I've never heard one preach against it, period!

[Firefighter]

It is hard to preach on something like that when you have a chicken leg hanging out of your mouth.

I have heard 2 preachers (out of hundreds if not thousands) other than myself preach on gluttony.

[Vhayes]

I think PPS's point was pork and shellfish - but I could be wrong.

[embankmentlb]

How exactly did we determine that drinking is a sin?

[Slug1]

Because gluttony is fun AND "no one gets hurt" AND when was the last time you heard a Pastor preach against gluttony????? I've never heard one preach against it, period!

Only during a pizza party

[Free Indeed]

How exactly did we determine that drinking is a sin?

I don't think we did.

I'll admit it. I love beer. Not that American domestic watered-down stuff like Busch and Budweiser either. My drink of choice if Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, the stuff that looks Coca-Cola when you pour it into a mug.

I've also been known to have a glass of wine or cocktail on occassion.

The sin would be in drinking irresponsibly. But the same sin is there in eating irresponsibly, or really in doing anything else irresponsibly.

[Slug1]

I don't think we did.

I'll admit it. I love beer. Not that American domestic watered-down stuff like Busch and Budweiser either. My drink of choice if Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, the stuff that looks Coca-Cola when you pour it into a mug.

I've also been known to have a glass of wine or cocktail on occassion.

The sin would be in drinking irresponsibly. But the same sin is there in eating irresponsibly, or really in doing anything else irresponsibly.

I agree on all points.

Smithwicks is a beer I enjoy when I can and it's that dark as well.

[Servant89]

It is written: Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the spirit.

If drinking one teaspoon of wine is a sin (as some here proposed), why would the HS explain regarding getting drunk with wine, that he is referring to drinking alcohol in excess? What is excess? Is drinking one teaspoon of wine excess?

Shalom

[embankmentlb]

It seems that the anti-alcohol folks are saying Jesus didn't drink or endorse anyone else to drink because it is a sin. Jesus never sinned. That somewhat works if you say drinking is a sin. If it's not a sin then Jesus could drink. Is drinking a sin or not? Is that in scripture?

[CommanderRobey]

It seems that the anti-alcohol folks are saying Jesus didn't drink or endorse anyone else to drink because it is a sin. Jesus never sinned. That somewhat works if you say drinking is a sin. If it's not a sin then Jesus could drink. Is drinking a sin or not? Is that in scripture?

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
This is speaking of an alcoholic beverage, and the instruction is not to even look upon it.

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Those who are saved are told in God's Holy Word that we have been made kings and priests unto Him. As kings, we are forbidden to drink alcoholic beverages.

[nzyr]

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
This is speaking of an alcoholic beverage, and the instruction is not to even look upon it.

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Those who are saved are told in God's Holy Word that we have been made kings and priests unto Him. As kings, we are forbidden to drink alcoholic beverages.

I believe those scriptures are telling people not to drink to excess. Especially the Lemuel one. Jesus did turn the water to wine at a marriage. And Paul did tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach's sake. I mean if Christians were never, ever, to drink the apostles would have told us so. Anything can be misused. Anything can be abused. Wine was used as an offering by the ancient Israelites:

And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. (Leviticus 23:13)

I believe people would be better off if they never drank a drop. But I don't believe the bible tells people to never, ever, drink.

[Servant89]

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

This is speaking of an alcoholic beverage, and the instruction is not to even look upon it.Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Those who are saved are told in God's Holy Word that we have been made kings and priests unto Him. As kings, we are forbidden to drink alcoholic beverages.

Are you serious ? If I look upon wine I comit sin? Are you saying Jesus never looked on wine?

Are you serious ? We are forbidden to drink wine because it is a sin? Really? Is it ok for Timothy to comit sin?

What part don't you get of these Scriptures? What part is difficult to understand?

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 UNTO THE PURE ALL THINGS ARE PURE: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure: but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or drink ...

Ecclesiastes 9:7 Go your way, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine (yayin) with merry heart: for now God accepts your works.

Romans 14:17 For the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink: but righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 9:4 Have we not the power (the right) to eat and drink ?

1 Corinthians 10:31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Ecclesiastes 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labor. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Jeremiah 22:15 Shall thou reign, because thy closest thyself in cedar? did not your father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?
16. He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? says the LORD.

And if we are called to not even look at wine, why is the Bible exhorting Church leaders to the higher standard of "not to drink too much of it"?

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled not soon angry, NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

1 Timothy 3:2-3 A bishop then must be blameless, ...not given to wine...

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise the deacons must be grave, ... not given to MUCH wine.

Why is it that wine or strong drinks are not on the list of things that are unclean to ingest in law of Moses? Why is it that God ordered Moses to pour wine and strong drink on the altar if it is unclean?

And why would God tell the alcoholic that lust for Rum or Whiskey to spend part of their tithing money on that which he lusts after and buy some rum and drink it in his presence? If it is a sin even to look on it, why would God command the alcoholics to do that?

Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shall truly TITHE all the increase of thy seed,...and thou shall eat it before the Lord thy God, ...the tithe of thy corn, of thy WINE, and of your oil,...and if the way be too long for you, then shall you turn it into money, ...and thou shall bestow that money for WHATSOEVER YOUR SOUL LUSTETH AFTER, for oxen, or for sheep, OR FOR WINE (yayin), OR FOR STRONG DRINK (shekkar), or for whatsoever thy soul desires; AND THOU SHALL EAT IT THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, AND THOU SHALL REJOICE, you and your household.

If it is a sin to drink, why would God ordered the alcoholics to rejoice in his presence with alcoholic drinks? Nope, God did not say get drunk, he said DRINK !

The wine that Jesus made at the feast was wine. Believe the word. It is written:

Ecclesiastes 10:19 A FEAST is made for laughter, and wine (yayin) makes merry: ...

And what kind of wine "makes merry"? Alcoholic or nonalcoholic? 1 Sam. 25:36 ...and Nabal's heart was merry within him, for he was very drunken.

Jeremiah 51:39 ...will make them drunken, that they may rejoice,

Zechariah 10:7 ...the children of Ephraim shall rejoice in the LORD as through wine (yayin)...

Do you really want me to preach from the pulpit "Do not even look at a beer of wine for it is a sin to look upon it, but rather be FILLED with the spirit.? Is that what I should say from the pulpit? NOOOOOOOOO! It is written:

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine (oino), wherein is excess; but BE FILLED with the spirit.

We should be teaching against the excess of drinking wine as much as the excess of eating meat, no more, no less.

Shalom

[CommanderRobey]

I believe those scriptures are telling people not to drink to excess. Especially the Lemuel one. Jesus did turn the water to wine at a marriage. And Paul did tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach's sake. I mean if Christians were never, ever, to drink the apostles would have told us so. Anything can be misused. Anything can be abused. Wine was used as an offering by the ancient Israelites:

And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. (Leviticus 23:13)

I believe people would be better off if they never drank a drop. But I don't believe the bible tells people to never, ever, drink.

Notice that verse does not say Look thou not upon the wine after you have had a glass of it. Nor does it say Look not upon the wine after you begin to feel a slight buzz.

No, it gives us a time that we are not to look upon the wine. When is that time? When it is red... when it giveth his colour in the cup... when it moveth itself aright.

This speaking of a fermented wine. We know this because of the next verse that tells us it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

You do know what a serpents bite brings don't you? It brings poison with it.

And the Word clearly instructs us not even to look upon that wine that is fermented.

[CommanderRobey]

Are you serious ? If I look upon wine I comit sin? Are you saying Jesus never looked on wine?

Are you serious ? We are forbidden to drink wine because it is a sin? Really? Is it ok for Timothy to comit sin?

What part don't you get of these Scriptures? What part is difficult to understand?

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 UNTO THE PURE ALL THINGS ARE PURE: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure: but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or drink ...

Ecclesiastes 9:7 Go your way, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine (yayin) with merry heart: for now God accepts your works.

Romans 14:17 For the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink: but righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 9:4 Have we not the power (the right) to eat and drink ?

1 Corinthians 10:31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Ecclesiastes 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labor. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Jeremiah 22:15 Shall thou reign, because thy closest thyself in cedar? did not your father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?
16. He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? says the LORD.

And if we are called to not even look at wine, why is Bible exhorting church leaders not to drink too much of it?

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled not soon angry, NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

1 Timothy 3:2-3 A bishop then must be blameless, ...not given to wine...

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise the deacons must be grave, ... not given to MUCH wine.

Why is it that wine or strong drinks are not on the list of things that are unclean to ingest in law of Moses? Why is it that God ordered Moses to pour wine and strong drink on the altar if it is unclean?

And why would God tell the alcoholic that lust for Rum or Whiskey to spend part of their tithing money on that which he lusts after and buy some rum and drink it in his presence? If it is a sin even to look on it, why would God command the alcoholics to do that?

Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shall truly TITHE all the increase of thy seed,...and thou shall eat it before the Lord thy God, ...the tithe of thy corn, of thy WINE, and of your oil,...and if the way be too long for you, then shall you turn it into money, ...and thou shall bestow that money for WHATSOEVER YOUR SOUL LUSTETH AFTER, for oxen, or for sheep, OR FOR WINE (yayin), OR FOR STRONG DRINK (shekkar), or for whatsoever thy soul desires; AND THOU SHALL EAT IT THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, AND THOU SHALL REJOICE, you and your household.

If it is a sin to drink, why would God ordered the alcoholics to rejoice in his presence with alcoholic drinks? Nope, God did not say get drunk, he said DRINK !

The wine that Jesus made at the feast was wine. Believe the word. It is written:

Ecclesiastes 10:19 A FEAST is made for laughter, and wine (yayin) makes merry: ...

And what kind of wine "makes merry"? Alcoholic or nonalcoholic? 1 Sam. 25:36 ...and Nabal's heart was merry within him, for he was very drunken.

Jeremiah 51:39 ...will make them drunken, that they may rejoice,

Zechariah 10:7 ...the children of Ephraim shall rejoice in the LORD as through wine (yayin)...

Do you really want me to preach from the pulpit "Do not even look at a beer of wine for it is a sin to look upon it, but rather be FILLED with the spirit.? Is that what I should say from the pulpit? NOOOOOOOOO! It is written:

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine (oino), wherein is excess; but BE FILLED with the spirit.

We should be teaching against the excess of drinking wine as much as the excess of eating meat, no more, no less.

Shalom

Jesus never looked upon alcholic wine. He was the King of kings and as such, He, of all people, was forbidden to drink that poison that men put into their mouths to steal away their brains.

You are falsely assuming that the Israelites mentioned in Deuteronomy 14 were alcoholics.

God's Word states that no drunkard will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Surely you don't think God would tell alcoholics to go out and buy them some alcohol to drink???

What a foolish god that would be.