Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[Servant89]

Jesus never looked upon alcholic wine. He was the King of kings and as such, He, of all people, was forbidden to drink that poison that men put into their mouths to steal away their brains.

Thank you for so clearly demostrating to us how to nullify the word of God and make it null and void of no effect. Thank you.

Shalom

[CommanderRobey]

What part of "Look not thou upon the wine when it" do you not understand?

[CommanderRobey]

Thank you for so clearly demostrating to us how to nullify the word of God and make it null and void of no effect. Thank you.

Shalom

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating to us how to ignore the instruction of God.

[Servant89]

2000 years ago, the people of God took one requirement that was for the priest only and only before entering the Tabernacle, and they declared that God expected all the people to follow that requirement all the time (washing hands before eating in the Tabernacle).

Ex 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not;

There is certainly nothing new under the sun, for today, the people of God is doing it again, taking the other requirement that was for the priest only and only before entering the Tabernacle, and they declared that God expected all the people to follow that requirement all the time (total abstinence from alcohol).

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Seeing how Jesus reacted to the first instance, and how short a fuse he had for that, should put the fear of God in us (in repeating that mistake and walking that minefield).

Shalom

[Servant89]

What part of "Look not thou upon the wine when it" do you not understand?

In Matthew 12:1-6 Jesus taught us to interpret Scripture by keeping in mind the whole entire Bible in perspective, not just one passage. Let me use the verses that you used.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
This is speaking of an alcoholic beverage, and the instruction is not to even look upon it.

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

The point of that advice, and there is a difference between a law and an advice, is found in Prov 31:4-5... lest they get affected by it during ministry.... and the reason is to avoid the problem of trying to minister while they are drunk. Isaiah put it better...

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

And the Bible is true. It is better not to drink wine or even look at it, if there is a 1 % chance that I will end up being an alcoholic, I better not even try it. That is wise advice. But it is not a law. If it is a law, they those verses I quoted are out of line with the doctrine of God.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating to us how to ignore the instruction of God.

I am not ignoring the intruction, that is a great instruction that we all should follow. The issue here is this: That is an instruction, not a law. It is a sin to break a law. It is not a sin to ignore an instruction.

Shalom

[sheina maidle]

And the Bible is true. It is better not to drink wine or even look at it, if there is a 1 % chance that I will end up being an alcoholic, I better not even try it. That is wise advice. But it is not a law. If it is a law, they those verses I quoted are out of line with the doctrine of God.

There are NO conditions in Proverbs 23:29-35. No "ifs" about 1% chances, etc. When you ignore God's instructions, there are always consequences. God's Word says "Look thou not upon..." What part of that insturction do you not understand?

IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?

(1) No, even slight drinking impairs one's thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Peter 5:8-9).

(2) No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Ephesians 5:18).

(3) No, Christians are priests, and the Bible forbids priests to drink (1 Peter 2:9; Leviticus 10:8,11).

(4) No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Corinthians 6:17-7:1).

(5) No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

(6) No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Romans 14:21).

(7) No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Proverbs 20:1).

No man who takes an alcoholic beverage to his lips knows exactly where it will lead.

[CommanderRobey]

I am not ignoring the intruction, that is a great instruction that we all should follow. The issue here is this: That is an instruction, not a law. It is a sin to break a law. It is not a sin to ignore an instruction.

Shalom

So you think it is ok to ignore instructiion? OK.

Psalms 50:16-17 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.

One cannot know understanding unless one attends to instruction. But servant apparently wants to do what seemeth right in his own eyes.

Proverbs 4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

Proverbs 5:7-12 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth. Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house: Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel: Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger; And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed, And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

Proverbs 10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Not a sin to ignore instruction? According to the above verse, one who ignores instructiion is not in the way of life.

Proverbs 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 23:12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.

One cannot apply ones' heart to instruction if one is ignoring it.

Jeremiah 32:33-34 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.

Everywhere in the Word of God that one ignored instruction, God's wrath follows.

It would be wise to attain to the instruction of the Lord and Look not upon the wine when it is fermented.

[Servant89]

So you think it is ok to ignore instructiion? OK.

Psalms 50:16-17 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.

One cannot know understanding unless one attends to instruction. But servant apparently wants to do what seemeth right in his own eyes.

Proverbs 4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

Proverbs 5:7-12 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth. Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house: Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel: Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger; And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed, And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

Proverbs 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

Proverbs 10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.

Not a sin to ignore instruction? According to the above verse, one who ignores instructiion is not in the way of life.

Proverbs 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 23:12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.

One cannot apply ones' heart to instruction if one is ignoring it.

Jeremiah 32:33-34 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.

Everywhere in the Word of God that one ignored instruction, God's wrath follows.

It would be wise to attain to the instruction of the Lord and Look not upon the wine when it is fermented.

I want to go on record. Please, everyone get close. I want to make sure everyone hears this. QUIET! Listen up !!!!

What commander Roy has accused me of, well, he is right, absolutley right.

I have failed to follow instructions. I am a sinner. I am blind !!! But my chances of going to heaven are far greater than the self righteous.

Jn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Luke 18:99 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Thanks for the instruction. It is a good instruction.

It is good instruction to live as a bachelor, a single life:

1Cor 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself (single, not married). But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

But it is not a law, it is an instruction.

It is a good thing to be vegetarian. But it is an instruction not a law.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

It is a good instruction to live in tents (Rechabites, Jer 35) but not a law.

It is a good instruction to give to the Lord generously, but not a law, we do not give because we have to, we give because we want to.

2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Thanks again for the intruction. Thank you!

Shalom

[Servant89]

There are NO conditions in Proverbs 23:29-35. No "ifs" about 1% chances, etc. When you ignore God's instructions, there are always consequences. God's Word says "Look thou not upon..." What part of that insturction do you not understand?

IS IT ALRIGHT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DRINK MODERATELY?

(1) No, even slight drinking impairs one's thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Peter 5:8-9).

(2) No, Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Ephesians 5:18).

(3) No, Christians are priests, and the Bible forbids priests to drink (1 Peter 2:9; Leviticus 10:8,11).

(4) No, Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Corinthians 6:17-7:1).

(5) No, Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

(6) No, Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Romans 14:21).

(7) No, wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Proverbs 20:1).

No man who takes an alcoholic beverage to his lips knows exactly where it will lead.

I am not ignoring you. You deserve special attention. In the words of the Terminator, I'LL BE BACK.

Shalom

[Servant89]

I have to go to work now, but I will leave you with this. If the doctor told you: "You are overweight". ... really, really, really, you should not come here to argue in favor of total abstinence from alcohol. Seriously.

Shalom

[Firefighter]

"Look thou not upon" is referring to wine that is not fully fermented, hence the reference to moving on it's own. Besides, wouldn't that rule out grape juice too?

[Frecs]

I want to go on record. Please, everyone get close. I want to make sure everyone hears this. QUIET! Listen up !!!!

What commander Roy has accused me of, well, he is right, absolutley right.

I have failed to follow instructions. I am a sinner. I am blind !!! But my chances of going to heaven are far greater than the self righteous.

Jn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Luke 18:99 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Thanks for the instruction. It is a good instruction.

It is good instruction to live as a bachelor, a single life:

1Cor 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself (single, not married). But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

But it is not a law, it is an instruction.

It is a good thing to be vegetarian. But it is an instruction not a law.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

It is a good instruction to live in tents (Rechabites, Jer 35) but not a law.

It is a good instruction to give to the Lord generously, but not a law, we do not give because we have to, we give because we want to.

2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Thanks again for the intruction. Thank you!

Shalom

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Servant89 again.

Stupid computers....anyway...you rock, dude!

[notuptome]

I want to go on record. Please, everyone get close. I want to make sure everyone hears this. QUIET! Listen up !!!!

What commander Roy has accused me of, well, he is right, absolutley right.

I have failed to follow instructions. I am a sinner. I am blind !!! But my chances of going to heaven are far greater than the self righteous.

Thanks again for the intruction. Thank you!

Shalom

Believing that it is best for one's testimony to abstain from alcohol does not make one self-righteous. To accuse a brother or sister is wrong. I do not accuse those who imbibe of being drunkards.

I am quite concerned about the attitude that boasts and brags of things that divide the body of Christ and hinders holy fellowship.

We speak what we feel in our hearts. Why do we not speak the harmless, pure virtues of Christ instead of the pleasures of alcohol?

Neither the self righteous or the drunkard glorify Christ Who shed His blood for the forgivness of their sin. Blind leaders of blind will result in both ending in the ditch.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[embankmentlb]

So you think it is ok to ignore instructiion? OK.

CammanderRobey, Do you own a car or home or even a chair to sit in? Jesus command was to sell everything you own, give the money to the poor & follow him. Did you ignore that command? If so, how is that different than the command you keep referencing regarding alcohol?