Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[quinn]

Do you know what really turns me off? What turns me off is to see someone who names the Name of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and advocates drinking beverage alcohol and tries to justify their behavior by pulling Scripture out of context. Worldly Christians turn me off. One foot in the world and one foot in Christianity....pretty hypocritical to me.

That is sad. Can you not see that your attitude alone is not that of Jesus? I didn't ever advocate drinking, just as the word unfermented was not in John 2:1-10.

Doesn't anyone remember the stories of Jesus telling the Pharasees that no one can get to heaven through works? They were so bent on the laws, that they didn't realize they were breaking them, too. If you can't see how your post is not Godly, then I can't help you and I won't try. Like I said, trying to do God's work for him is futile. I can't judge you or your salvation, but remember, you can't judge anyone else's, either.

My first thought, if I was soooo against drinking, would be to not even read the wine thread. You and others have chosen to not only read the thread, but judge others who don't feel the way you do. It's sad.

[nzyr]

Not being legalistic at all. To obey the Word of God and to preach what is written therein is not called legalism... it's called obedience.

The Son of man came eating and drinking, Notice He did not say He was drinking alcohol? Yet, you, like the pharisees of times past, accuse Him of drinking alcohol. (oinopotes)

You are just as wrong as the Pharisees were.

I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm quoting the bible. Jesus is saying that John didn't drink anything (as he was a nazarite) and they said he was possessed. Jesus drank a little bit of wine and they called him an alcoholic. What he is saying is no matter how good you are people will always criticise you.

[nzyr]

Not at all. I experimented using the techniques of those that lived in the time of Christ. Their instructions worked perfectly.

The fact is, they called grape juice wine in Bible times.

Proverbs 3:10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

It is not fermented wine that is found in presses, it is that which is squeezed out of grapes... unfermented wine, just as the wise king Solomon recorded.

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

It is not fermented wine found in the cluster, it is unfermented. If a wine manufacturer of today were to go out in his vineyard and his grapes had fermented while on the vine, that wine manufacturer would destroy those grapes and wait for a new harvest. Wine manufacturers use a refractometer on the grapes while they are still on the vine to determine the amount of sugar in the grape. If it is enough sugar, the grape is harvested. If there is not enough sugar, the grape is not used.

You cannot compare google's definition of what the age of good wine is with what the Bible calls good wine. Apple's and oranges. People of Bible times considered good wine to be non intoxicating. Many historians of that era record that.

The method of preserving wine in its non alcoholic state is recorded by 1st Century historians. I'll trust their writings concerning wine since I have mimicked one of those methods and found their writing to be accurate and true.

They would know more about what the preferred wine was more than you or anyone else in the 21'st Century... especially more than google.

Sure they had grape juice. But the grape juice that they preserved for later use was turned into wine. As they didn't have refrigerators back then. And some forms of new wine were intoxicating.

Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. (Hosea 11:1)

[quinn]

You must not be reading the ssame Bible I am. My Bible indeed gives me such authority. It states in John 7:24 that we are to "judge righteous judgment." Since you, and others as well, keep insisting that Jesus drank and gave to man alcoholic wine, I have the authority of God's Word to judge those words you write as being totally false.

Wow! You have just said that God gave you the right to judge others! I have never heard anyone say such a pompous thing.

And not only that, but you took the entire thing out of context. Jesus was talking about people judging him for fore healing a man on the Sabbath. He said Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgement.

That means to stop going strictly by a law that says not to work on the Sabbath and make the right judgement that healing someone on the Sabbath is okay, even if it "technically" breaks some law.

I honestly can't understand some of you who think that you have the right to judge. It is astonishing. But, I have been someone and know plenty more people who will turn from God because of people like you. As a new Christian with friends who haven't been saved yet, I feel people like you are my biggest obstacle. I will pray for you, but I hope you aren't unpleasantly suprised on judgement day when Jesus hands down HIS judgement.

I certainly won't tell them to go to this website for information and support as they start their walk in Glory.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Friendship with the world is enmity with God. (James 4:4) That's the state of worldly "professing" Christians....James says you are an enemy of God.

Wow. I had no idea you even knew me.

Essential doctrinal error and practice would include obedience to God's word and not conforming to the world. God's word teaches total abstinence which worldly Christians advocate....that turns me off as well as the heretical teaching that Jesus made alcoholic wine and drank it, a lie which has deceived many and has probably sent many to a Christless eternity.

Yeah, it was a teaching about beverages that "sent many to a Christless eternity", not sin. (Sin is the nature, sins are the resulting acts of that nature.)

The only "pain" is the "pain" for those who are deceived. The only thing that "drives" me is the Truth. People who are deceived and are deceiving others are also accountable to God. Never blamed anyone else for my husband's choices...he made his own choices and will be held accountable for those choices. However other people influenced those choices...and those people will also be held accountable to God.

Your self-righteousness is showing.

Or perhaps it's your own reflection. It was a serious question about your balance of scholarship.

Since there are no more sin offerings and burnt offerings, there can be no more Nazarite vow, your point about abstinence is futile.

I didn't say it was still in effect, I said it exemplified Biblical abstinence. Please show specific scholarship of Biblical abstinence.

BTW... I'm a lifetime total abstainer; never had a drop. Scholarship won't clearly uphold your view; it's absolutely interpretational regarding Hebrew and Greek word usage, etc.

[CommanderRobey]

Sure they had grape juice. But the grape juice that they preserved for later use was turned into wine. As they didn't have refrigerators back then. And some forms of new wine were intoxicating.

Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. (Hosea 11:1)

THey did not have a refridgerator, but they did indeed have means of refridgeration. If they had no means of refridgeration, the ancients of the first century AD would not have recorded how to keep things cold.

Even Jesus indicated that there was a means of refridgeration in his teachings.

You really should study the Bible and History of the Bible lands. Your knowledge of both is very telling.

[MaryFreeman]

Wow! You have just said that God gave you the right to judge others! I have never heard anyone say such a pompous thing.

And not only that, but you took the entire thing out of context. Jesus was talking about people judging him for fore healing a man on the Sabbath. He said Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgement.

That means to stop going strictly by a law that says not to work on the Sabbath and make the right judgement that healing someone on the Sabbath is okay, even if it "technically" breaks some law.

I honestly can't understand some of you who think that you have the right to judge. It is astonishing. But, I have been someone and know plenty more people who will turn from God because of people like you. As a new Christian with friends who haven't been saved yet, I feel people like you are my biggest obstacle. I will pray for you, but I hope you aren't unpleasantly suprised on judgement day when Jesus hands down HIS judgement.

I certainly won't tell them to go to this website for information and support as they start their walk in Glory.

The only sentence that breaks my heart more is the one where the sinner that comes to this website claims they want nothing to do with Jesus as His followers treat each other worse than sinners treat each other....

[CommanderRobey]

Wow! You have just said that God gave you the right to judge others! I have never heard anyone say such a pompous thing.

And not only that, but you took the entire thing out of context. Jesus was talking about people judging him for fore healing a man on the Sabbath. He said Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgement.

That means to stop going strictly by a law that says not to work on the Sabbath and make the right judgement that healing someone on the Sabbath is okay, even if it "technically" breaks some law.

I honestly can't understand some of you who think that you have the right to judge. It is astonishing. But, I have been someone and know plenty more people who will turn from God because of people like you. As a new Christian with friends who haven't been saved yet, I feel people like you are my biggest obstacle. I will pray for you, but I hope you aren't unpleasantly suprised on judgement day when Jesus hands down HIS judgement.

I certainly won't tell them to go to this website for information and support as they start their walk in Glory.

Those that are of God are indeed told to judge. If you feel you are not qualified to judge, perhaps you need to examine yourself.

[quinn]

Those that are of God are indeed told to judge. If you feel you are not qualified to judge, perhaps you need to examine yourself.

Perhaps a mirror in front of your face will show you that you have a lot of self examination to do, as well. Until you are perfect, I don't think you can judge. You can offer advise, but judge not lest ye be judged. And you have officially ran me from this website. I will find one that is more about helping people in their walk than trying to be God themselves.

[sheina maidle]

Wow. I had no idea you even knew me.



Yeah, it was a teaching about beverages that "sent many to a Christless eternity", not sin. (Sin is the nature, sins are the resulting acts of that nature.)



Or perhaps it's your own reflection. It was a serious question about your balance of scholarship.



I didn't say it was still in effect, I said it exemplified Biblical abstinence. Please show specific scholarship of Biblical abstinence.

BTW... I'm a lifetime total abstainer; never had a drop. Scholarship won't clearly uphold your view; it's absolutely interpretational regarding Hebrew and Greek word usage, etc.

Your "scholarship" doesn't impress me. I never claimed to be a "scholar". It doesn't take "scholarship" to see that the word "wine" in the Bible doesn't always mean "fermented/alcoholic". Context will define which kind of wine is meant. That is the way I have attempted to show Biblical abstinence, but you and others come against everything I've posted. So carry on with your "scholarship" and I will continue to ignore you.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Why abstain if you believe that drinking is not a sin?

[MaryFreeman]

Perhaps a mirror in front of your face will show you that you have a lot of self examination to do, as well. Until you are perfect, I don't think you can judge. You can offer advise, but judge not lest ye be judged. And you have officially ran me from this website. I will find one that is more about helping people in their walk than trying to be God themselves.

Instead of leaving me.... Put him on ignore....

[CommanderRobey]

Perhaps a mirror in front of your face will show you that you have a lot of self examination to do, as well. Until you are perfect, I don't think you can judge. You can offer advise, but judge not lest ye be judged. And you have officially ran me from this website. I will find one that is more about helping people in their walk than trying to be God themselves.

And you think putting that poison called alcohol in the hands of men is helping people in their walk? It's helpingt them alright... it's helping them down the road to destruction.

[Slug1]

And you think putting that poison called alcohol in the hands of men is helping people in their walk? It's helpingt them alright... it's helping them down the road to destruction.

Actually what you call poison, even Jesus called... Fruit of the Vine. That's what He called it in my Bible at least... I don't know what translation calls wine... poison.

[CommanderRobey]

Actually what you call poison, even Jesus called... Fruit of the Vine. That's what He called it in my Bible at least... I don't know what translation calls wine... poison.

You must be reading the wrong Bible. My Bible says nothing of the fruit of the vine being alcoholic in content.

Or did you get the same Bible as me and write in 'alcohol' in that verse that says 'fruit of the vine'?

[sheina maidle]

Honey when you can get past the hurt and pain (that BTW I can sympathize with) and have a simple honest discussion.... I would love to talk to you.... But I don't believe your hurt will let you see anything I would try to say to you.... Just remember this....

Kindly refrain from the "Honey" nonsense. I am old enough to be your grandmother. You are not addressing one of your children.