Be not be drunk with wine... wine thread.

[Servant89]

I never said drinking alcohol AT ALL was sin. But Christ wouldn't knowingly give fermented wine to those who would get wasted. THAT is my point.

God gave the bag of money to Judas who was a thief. He gave the tree to Adam and Eve. He ... read it, this deals to alcoholics...

Deut 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Deal with it.

Shalom

[notuptome]

God gave the bag of money to Judas who was a thief. He gave the tree to Adam and Eve. He ... read it, this deals to alcoholics...

Deut 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Deal with it!

Shalom

Are you claiming that this passage gives license to live wickedly? Strong drink was for him who was near to death.

This passage deals with those who were not able to travel to the tabernacle to worship the Lord with all their goods. To facilitate travel they were to sell the increase of their land take the money and travel to the tabernacle buy what they needed and worship. They were to tithe and remember the Levite.

There is nothing in the context to suggest that the Lord was promoting behaviour that was not righteous and holy before the Lord. It was a time to worship God not act like pagans.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Servant89]

Can we just talk about what we disagree? Forget about talking about drunkeness, we all agree that is sin. Lets talk about one Budwiser per day. Is that a sin? Show us the verse.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Are you claiming that this passage gives license to live wickedly? Strong drink was for him who was near to death.

This passage deals with those who were not able to travel to the tabernacle to worship the Lord with all their goods. To facilitate travel they were to sell the increase of their land take the money and travel to the tabernacle buy what they needed and worship. They were to tithe and remember the Levite.

There is nothing in the context to suggest that the Lord was promoting behaviour that was not righteous and holy before the Lord. It was a time to worship God not act like pagans.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Read it, it says exactly what it says. It does not say what it does not say. It is a command dealing with wine and strong drink ... a command to those that lust after wine and strong drink... a commandment from God to the alcoholics on that particular day (once every 3 years).

Shalom

[Servant89]

Are you claiming that this passage gives license to live wickedly? Strong drink was for him who was near to death.

Tell me, killing my own son, is that a righteous thing to do? God told Abraham to do that. Strong drink was for alcoholics to drink in the Temple on the year of tithing, that is what that verse says. It does not say "get drunk", it says eat it there on that day (once / 3 years).

Shalom

[notuptome]

Read it, it says exactly what it says. It does not say what it does not say. It is a command dealing with wine and strong drink ... a command to those that lust after wine and strong drink... a commandment from God to the alcoholics on that particular day (once every 3 years).

Shalom

I did read it and I read the other passages that relate to it. It is in these that I understand what the Lord is saying. God in His word does not contradict Himself.

To suggest that God would promote wickedness in His people is absurd. God tell His people to be holy because He is holy. Drunkeness is a sin and God cannot promote sin. This is not even close to a debateable item.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Servant89]

I did read it and I read the other passages that relate to it. It is in these that I understand what the Lord is saying. God in His word does not contradict Himself.

To suggest that God would promote wickedness in His people is absurd. God tell His people to be holy because He is holy. Drunkeness is a sin and God cannot promote sin. This is not even close to a debateable item.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

who said anything about God telling them to get drunk? The issue here is not drunkenss... the issue here is total abstinence which is a commandment of man.

Shalom

[Servant89]

God in His word does not contradict Himself.

God is not contradicting his word, God is contradicting the commandment of man of total abstinence from alcohol.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Can we just talk about what we disagree? Forget about talking about drunkeness, we all agree that is sin. Lets talk about one Budwiser per day. Is that a sin? Show us the verse.

Shalom

Yes, lets go back to that. TOTAL ABSTINENCE is the issue here.

Shalom

[Frecs]

Gen 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am].

and yet....

Jam 1:13-17 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

It has been clearly shown that Jesus did drink fermented wine and that God no where prohibits the consumption of fermented wine. No "list of sins" OT or NT lists drinking alcohol as a sin. What is listed? drunkenness. When we allow our lusts to entice us away from what God's desire for us is, then we have sinned and the continuation of that sin leads to death.

Fermentation is healthy for us--our immune systems depend on maintaining a healthy colonization of beneficial microbes which are responsible for fermentation of wine, milk, meat, vegetables. Why would God make something sinful that is necessary for our health? He did not. He stated the obvious: drunkenness is not beneficial to us and leads us away from relationship with Him and into sin that leads to death.

Many choose abstinance from alcohol for a variety of reasons and that is fine. Not all ferments contain enough alcohol to cause a problem (for example kefir only contains about 1%, kombucha only about .5%, saurkraut even less). Do what you individually need to in order to control your own body and avoid temptation. Just be careful not to judge another because they have a different level of tolerance.

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

[Servant89]

Question: Who has a greater chance of going to heaven, a drunk that asks God to have mercy on him or a self righteous man that goes around praising himself and accusing others of breaking a commandment of man?

I rather be drunk than self righteous. As a matter of fact, I'm going to drink to that. I will be back, I am going to get me half a glass of wine.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Amen!!!

Shalom

[Amos_with_goats]

Can we just talk about what we disagree? Forget about talking about drunkeness, we all agree that is sin. Lets talk about one Budwiser per day. Is that a sin? Show us the verse.

Shalom

Yes, lets go back to that. TOTAL ABSTINENCE is the issue here.

Shalom

Servant89,

If you continue to quote your own posts in a conversation with yourself, we all might start to question your 'one Budweiser a day' policy.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Blah, blah, blah. Seriously, I am so TIRED of hearing Christians that THINK they know so much because they go to "THE GREEK" for hidden meanings, but nobody has found ANY hidden truth that I can't find in my english Bible. If you know of something that I can't find in english, let me know. I'm not getting offensive, I am just plum SICK of scholarship.
Give me an example. You can also GAIN something.
I guess you have forgotten about the word "charity," but oh, well.
Haha, sorry, but on what criteria?
No PARTS of scripture are blah, blah, blah, I was referring to the constant reference to the Koine Greek language, a dead language, that nobody speaks now.
I was referring to people's pride in going to the Greek. One poster said they had the original greek manuscript, but they don't. THAT'S why I wrote that. At best, they have a photostatic copy of the Sinaticus and Vaticanus which are 200 years younger than the apostle John. The Bible says that there were people corrupting the word of God at that time. You have THAT to deal with as a possibility that those texts were tampered with.

Wow... Forget wine discussions; THIS wholesale attack of scholarship is more absurd that ANY subject debate itself. It presumes an arrogance of those who labored to maintain the record of the inspired Word, and ignores the arrogance of disregarding scholarship for casual readership.

This "Back-Pew Denim-and-Tshirt" view of Biblical scholarship is ridiculous. That flushing sound was your credibility.

[Servant89]

Servant89,

If you continue to quote your own posts in a conversation with yourself, we all might start to question your 'one Budweiser a day' policy.

LOL !!! I agree. Good point. Peace !