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Thread: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

  1. #1

    For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    I was born a Catholic, and recently just started questioning the church (I'm 16) to the point of where I'm not sure I want to get confirmed. My biggest qualm is about the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

    Is it necessary? The way I understand it, Catholics believe that this is the only way to be forgiven by God, and I'm not sure I like that idea. What does everyone else think?

    I also have issues trusting the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It seems to be referenced more than the Bible by Catholics in many cases I've seen, and I want to believe that the Bible is God's Word.

    So, I'm pretty confused.
    Can anyone clear this up for me?
    "More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." -Romans 5:3-5, English Standard Version



    "Well done, good and faithful servant."


  2. #2

    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Well I am not sure you get much positives here about those issues since this is a mainly Protestant forum. I'll see if maybe I can answer some to be helpful. The Bible speaks of confession to one another positively as in James 5:16

    Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The intense prayer of the righteous is very powerful.

    I found a better explanation than I could give:
    The intent of this sacrament is to provide healing for the soul as well as to regain the grace of God, lost by sin. Catholics believe that priests have been given the authority by Jesus to exercise the forgiveness of sins here on earth and it is in Jesus' Holy Name by which the person confessing is forgiven. The Council of Trent (Session Fourteen, Chapter I) quoted John 20:22-23 as the primary Scriptural proof for the doctrine concerning this sacrament, but Catholics also consider Matthew 9:2-8, 1 Corinthians 11:27, and Matthew 16:17-20 to be among the Scriptural bases for the sacrament.
    Confession

    As far as the Catechism goes many and varied Christians use their individual Catechism because it defines the faith and Scripture. You can use the Scripture next to the Catechism and see were they agree. Some people learn more from their Catechism than straight Scripture, like for instance when I was a Calvinist even though I found the tenants of Calvinism in the Bible I learned a lot from the Westminster Confession of Faith and referenced that many times more then Scripture, it was just what I felt comfortable with until I could defend my positions on my own.

    Hope that helps and makes sense

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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSavage View Post
    Is it necessary? The way I understand it, Catholics believe that this is the only way to be forgiven by God, and I'm not sure I like that idea. What does everyone else think?
    Well I can tell you from my experiences with the Catholic church that that's not necessarily a completely true statement. I go to a men's meeting once a week with my dad to his church, which is Roman Catholic. And when I ask my dad, and several of his friends what it is that's needed to be forgiven by God, they'll acknowledge plainly that forgiveness can only come from God himself through Jesus Christ. If there was no man around you, there is no doubt that God would hear your plea to him. The idea that forgiveness can only come by way of a priest/pastor interceding for you to God, is just not in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSavage View Post
    I also have issues trusting the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It seems to be referenced more than the Bible by Catholics in many cases I've seen, and I want to believe that the Bible is God's Word.
    Although I've never read the whole Catechism I will say this. The Bible should always be our ultimate authority on faith. It's ok to read books on faith, but if those books, any book, contradicts what is clearly shown in the bible, then perhaps it may be good reading, but not sound doctrine.

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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    There are at least two types of 'Reconciliation' that the Bible speaks of, the first is at the new birth, when we first come to accept Christ and what He did for us. Paul puts it this way in 2 Corinthians 5:

    17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    That is the first step, that which puts into the Body of Christ, the Church, and makes us alive to Him and God's Goodness. There is a second, and that has to do when, as a Christian, we sin and need forgiveness. John speaks about this in his first letter; 1 John 1:

    9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    God is loving and merciful and ready to forgive us if we seek Him for forgiveness. James, I believe, talks about those sinful habits that we really need prayer and help with in overcoming. It is a fact that communal prayer (prayer for and with other Christians) is a strong part and act of the Body of believers in Christ.
    Now, I have nothing against catechisms, per se, as long as they are not substitutes for reading and prayer. James, in the first chapter of his letter tells us to pray for wisdom if we need it. James 1:

    5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

    God is always ready to forgive, and to provide us with all we need to live our life with Him and in fellowship with other believers, the Body of Christ, His Church. If you carefully read the first 11 verses of the first chapter of 2 Peter, that promise is their for all believers to claim and to grow in.

    Each denomination has different rules for joining that group. and we need to think carefully about what we are doing and joining. Just seek Him in prayer and reading the Bible, and He will give you an answer, but Patience is usually what is needed in any endeavor....
    God happens!
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    On cautionary note:
    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectPeter
    When they say something... it is about anyone's guess what it is they really mean... but NEVER ask for clarification of their mysterious language... they are often very happy to give it and that's when the discussion goes FREAKY!

  5. #5

    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    You ask a good question.
    I'm not young, nor Catholic, but you also asked for input from anyone, so here's my take on it:

    What the Bible says about confession

    There are a couple of passages which discuss recounting our sins to other believers.

    The Vocabulary

    Most of the passages use a word that gets translated, in English, "confess": the greek verb is ἐξομολογέω (exomologeō, Strong's G1843).

    Exomologeō comes from ἐκ (ek, G1537) meaning "out" or "out of" or "away from" and ὁμολογέω (homologeō, G3670), "to agree", "say the same thing as", "concede", "profess", or even "celebrate". In ὁμολογέω (homologeō), we have a compound of the base of ὁμοῦ (homou, G3674), an adverb meaning "the same" or "in the same way" and λόγος (logos, G3056), "word" from from λέγω (legō, G3004) "to speak". It's easy to see how a verb formed from legō or logos (speak, word) and homou (same), would mostly mean agree with, concede, or say the same as. Anyhow, the primary sense of exomologeō seems to be to speak out, or concede, the things on your heart or your conscience, in a spirit of conceding your faults, or agreeing with God. Exomologeō is translated "confess" 8 times, and "thank" twice, and "promise" once in the AV (KJV) translation of the New Testament.

    We are speaking out our sins (or our praises to God) and agreeing with Him about them.

    The Biblical Passages

    At Matt. 3:6 and Mark 1:5 we are told that in response to John the Baptizer's preaching, people repented (John preached a baptism of repentance, for the forgiveness, or remission -- sending away -- of sins, the Gospels tell us), "and were baptized by John" in the Jordan river "confessing their sins".

    As the apostles taught, we're told in Acts 19, that after a miraculous deliverance (casting out an evil spirit) many of the onlookers were awed, and as this became known "the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified" (19:17) As a result (19:18) "And many that believed came, and confessed, and acknowledge things they had done." They came and confessed their sins.

    And James 5:16 says "Confess your faults to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed . The prayers of a righteous man are powerful, and are very effective." In context he then goes on to consider the prayers of Elijah, which accomplished great miracles, specifically in bringing the land to repentance through causing a drought and then stopping the drought which had done so. The sense, then, is that James is telling us that through confession, perhaps to the churches ministers, and through prayers by these godly friends, God does much to put away our sins and heal us.

    The word "confess" -- or what people do in going to the apostles and their successors, to the elders of the church, and so on -- is not explicitly mentioned in Christ's mandate to the apostles in John 20:23 (or 20:19-23) but it is implied. The apostles great the risen Lord Jesus, and he endows them with the Holy Spirit, and commissions them to be His successors, to do as He has done.
    On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jewish authorities, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

    As 21st century Americans we live in a time and place which is very anti-authority. The idea of authorities in the church, though, is fully accepted in the New Testament.

    The Biblical Principles involved,
    and some contemporary experience

    There are, in my opinion, two central principles that are being exposited in these texts.

    A first principle is that it is often helpful and important for us to be able to acknowledge our sins, to another human being as well as to God.

    Of course, we start out by knowing that it is God alone who can forgive sins. But God can help us understand and receive the power of his forgiveness through the encouragement, acceptance, and honest words of human beings.

    It's for this reason that lots of people -- lots of Christian high-school or college students, for instance -- have friends with whom they are "accountability partners". Sometimes this is one on one, sometimes in a close group of friends. They talk with their accountability partners, or small groups, about their struggles. (For instance, lots of young people have struggles with lust.) Such conversations, in my experience, have various aspects: people ask one another about how things are going, encourage one another in regular prayer and bible reading, and, definitely, report if they have messed up. What then happens? In my experience, people encourage the person who has goofed, reassuring him (or her) of God's love, but also encouraging him (or her) to stay on a good path. This kind of thing is very helpful to people (including me) in my experience.

    A similar principle is invovled in 12-step organizations, like AA -- alcholics anonymous.

    But in lots of cases its hard to find a good accountability partner, let alone group, with whom one has enough trust to know that the other will be completely discrete (not spill the beans), have a wide enough experience to take things in stride, and wise in giving counsel. For me, it's been great when I've had a friend whom I can speak absolutely frankly with about things in me that appall me. The knowledge that my friend sees all that ugly crap, and still sees me, as God does, in love and hope (and respect) is so very powerful in helping me walk right, and be free from the burdens of my faults. But it's been relatively rare that I have such a friend -- peer friend -- around on a regular basis. However, there have been friends I can't be quite as open with, but who still I can be pretty open with, and pray with about my faults and lacks. Again, it's strengthening. Often (not always) such relationships are mutual. My friend and I may struggle with some of the same issues, and that too gives me hope, helps me overcome my shattered confidence when I goof, and generally communicates God's grace and love through the honest Christian fellowship we have. Also, in these friendships, sometimes (actually, fairly often) my friend or friends will challenge me: see some different things I need to do, or problems in my attitudes I'm not aware of, and so on. That's both helpful and encouraging, too. And of course we pray together about all these things, which is great.

    So one principle we have here is the importance of partnership, and of open discussion with a trusted Christian friend of our weaknesses and sins (as well of our aspirations). "Confess your sins to one another" can include peer accountability relationships. And not just for young folks. My senior pastor (priest, rector) has a group of clergy whom he's met with for about 25 years (the membership changes a bit as new folks come in, and some move too far away, or in time die) in which they practice, as a group, complete honesty, in complete confidentiality, about their lives, including their faults, sins, and problems. Again, it's vital in keeping them on track, and balanced, and out of falling into trouble, and whole and healed before God.

    But a second principle here seems to be that of going to elders, apostolic authority, and confessing sins.

    People confessed their sins, at the Jordon, not just "to one another" but to those whom God had commissioned, John, and his disciples. (When it says confessed their sins to John it must be including close followers, disciples whom he'd commissioned, because he alone personally couldn't have met with each of the people in the crowds.) In Acts, the many people who are convicted come to the apostles (and their deputies) and acknowledge their sins. James, in speaking of confessing sins "to one another" completes the verse by speaking of the particularly effective prayer of a person whose prayers have power because of their righteousness, and then goes on to talk about the prophet Elijah. Thus James is directing our attention, through examples, I think, not just to confession in the family, to a spouse or close friend or peer, but to the people God gives us as pastors, teachers, religious authorities. A lot of young people want to get counsel from an older Christian. A lot of students who are wrestling with things, including pretty hefty things, come to trusted teachers or older Christians to talk them over. And likewise come to talk lesser struggles over.

    There is a special role, though, which pastors have, and which the appointed authorities in the Church which Christ instsituted have. In John 20, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to the apostles and also gives them authority to forgive sins. He says he's sending them as the Father sent him. Jesus forgave the sins of particular persons at many points in the gospel; and now, He says, He's giving them power to forgive sins, or to refuse to forgive (where they see that repentance is incomplete, I assume). There is a measure of authority which they, as the appointed shepherds, are being given by Christ, the chief shepherd.

    Thus, even when I have great peer accountability friendships available, I also go to confession. I confess to my priest -- I'm an Anglican, not a Roman Catholic -- and receive from him council, direction, and absolution. I love it. It's very difficult at times, going back, for instance, with the same stupid sin time after time, and not having made much progress on it, or even doing worse. (I usually go to the same guy when I go to confess, and he knows me well.) He prays for me. He says incredible things. I can feel his concern and love for me, and it gives me courage to go on seeking to follow God's ways and not give up. He comes up with scripture for me to think about. He gives me perspective. Sometimes what he says (the Scripture verses he directs me towards) seem sensible. Sometimes they seem out of the blue, but totally right. Sometimes he comes up with Scripture verses which seem out of the blue, and I don't get it. But, as I work with those verses afterward, I get the point and see that this really was a great word for me. This whole process helps me walk closer with God in so many ways.

    God alone is the one who forgives our sins. All forgiveness of sins comes from God

    Absolution -- the positive declaration of forgiveness -- is also important for me. Christ made the church His body, and commissioned the apostles and their successors, giving them the Holy Spirit, and (IMO) authority, just as John 20:23 says. Of course, it is God -- God only -- who forgives. I've never imagined otherwise; no one I know thinks or has ever thought differently. But God works through human beings. He sent Christ in the flesh, and constituted a flesh and blood church as Christ's body, to carry on His work. That, however, is a controversial point, about which different Christians may reasonably differ.

    There's nothing -- NOTHING -- we have or can have, no good we receive that we don't receive from God. He, and He alone is the giver of every good gift (as James also notes). Our food each day, our health, our learning, our freedom from wars, our friends, our families -- all are God's good gifts. (My family is God's amazing and wonderful good gift even though, oddly enough, the people in my family, just like me, are imperfect, and sometimes very imperfect!) And thus of course, when a friend prays for me, and the prayer is answered, it's by God's grace that the prayer took place, as well as the answer. When a friend helps me by giving me a lift when my car's broken, God is helping me. And when a friend, or pastor -- or my priest -- preaches to me, or encourages me, or prays for me, that person is acting, effectively, often strongly, but it is God who ultimately is at work. Paul says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work acccording to what He, in His goodness, considers best."

    And so too, I believe Scripture when it says that Christ gave power to the apostles, and their successors, and their successors, and to my parish priest, to hear my confession, and counsel me, and pray for me, and act as God's agent in effectively working forgiveness and remission (sending away) of my sins in me. But as i say, there are differing points of view on these things.

    Others will differ, but I myself see no contradiction with Scripture in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but rather exactly what Scripture says. I see no contradiction to the uniqueness of God's authority and power, but rather the confirmation of that power -- God's power alone -- working (as God has generally chosen to work) through human beings in His church, as well as directly.

    And of course (a lesser matter) it also makes sense with, and lines up with, my experience, and the experience of others.

    Summing up

    Confession, including the Sacrament of Reconcilaition, but not limited to that, in my experience, combines forgiveness, growth in our relationship with God, and healing, and power to be better. But of course, God works with us patiently, and my understanding of God's love and patience also grows as my human friends -- peer friends and also priests -- also are patient with me, as I often continue to struggle and mess up in a variety of ways. It's encouraging and helpful.

    A senior member of this board, Slug1, has an awesome testimony about how God healed him from sexual brokenness (fantasy lust and masturbation) as God directed him to go to his pastor (a baptist pastor, I think, filled with the Holy Spirit) and confess fully to that guy Slug's struggles and faults. That testimony is posted on the board.

    Blessings,
    Scruff

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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Thanks to all for the replies. I appreciate the tone of this, and am going to refrain from moving this to World Religions for the sake of the OP.


    When I was in the Catholic Church, I noticed a phenomena among my peers where confession was seen as a 'get out of hell free card' in a sense.

    If I consider the discussions of purity among my RCC peers, and later among POC friends (Plain Ole Christian) I saw a completely different attitude about sin.

    One of the reasons I believe the Lord lead me out of the Roman Catholic Church was the supplanting of my relationship with Christ by a
    relationship with man. The sacrament of reconciliation is an excellent example of this.

    While there can be great value in confession (I wept last Sunday, as I confessed to and prayed with my brothers)... there is absolutely ZERO room in our relationship with the Lord for an intermediary. The RCC Priest is very much in that role, and the flesh loves that.

    I encourage you, what ever path you choose.... make NO provision for the flesh.

    Blessings,
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    ~ * You get 10 'reps' to bless others with each day... don't log off until you have used them up......
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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Okay let me first by starting to stay I am not a catholic, so I dont know all the ups and downs. But confessionals and the sacrament of reconciliation I'm not too fond of mainly because forgiveness isn't about paying an indulgence or confessing it to man, you must confess to the lord, he is the person who will judge you when you die so you must!!!!! Confess your sins to god worship him, not the pope, the pope is only mortal but god is eternal now I'm not saying depart from catholicism I'm saying god and Christ is your path for righteousness. So worship him. And READ THE BIBLE, I would suggest start with the new testament read the gospel of Luke, or what I'm saying is religion is just a word. If you want answers you must read his word and his word is found in the bible it doesn't matter what denomination you are as long as you believe what is in the bible. so worship the lord and confess to him praise him and rejoice when you here his name for he gave you life the least you can do is live for him. God bless.

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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleSavage View Post
    I was born a Catholic, and recently just started questioning the church (I'm 16) to the point of where I'm not sure I want to get confirmed. My biggest qualm is about the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

    Is it necessary? The way I understand it, Catholics believe that this is the only way to be forgiven by God, and I'm not sure I like that idea. What does everyone else think?

    I also have issues trusting the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It seems to be referenced more than the Bible by Catholics in many cases I've seen, and I want to believe that the Bible is God's Word.

    So, I'm pretty confused.
    Can anyone clear this up for me?
    Ok, I am Catholic. I am fairly new to the Catholic Church, but I have been a Christian for many years. I was raised a Protestant, so my veiw is unique to most Catholics. Confession is simply your chance to confess your sins. The Priest does not actually forgive you. The entire time you are confessing, the priest is (or should be) praying for you. He then leads you in a prayer (act of contrition) which says, quite literally, "God please forgive me ofmy sends, I am truly sorry for having offended you, etc..." At then end of it, he tells you that you are forgiven of your sins and go in peace to live and serve the Lord. He will usually give you advice on how to avoid this sin. That advice usually involves prayer, scripture reading, and possible atonement if you have wrong someone. Did he just forgive you? No. He gave you a chance to confess your sins before God while you had somewhere there to guide and support you. Next, he led you in an act of contrition, a prayer to seek the forgiveness of God. Last, he told you what God did. He said, "You are forgiven." That does not mean you were given by him but that you were forgiven by God. Sure, to be forgiven you do not have to go for a formal confession, but you do have to confess and repent. You are right Catholics do believe there is only one way to be forgive, because there is only one way. Only the saving Grace of Jesus Christ can forgive you. For the Mercy of the Lord God is the only Truth.

    The Catholic Church requires the Sacrament of Reconciliation to be met to ensure that you have truly confessed and repented of your sins before being confirmed into the Church. Confirmation literally means you are publically confirmed as a member of the Body of Christ. It is part of a very serious process that will define your life. If you are unsure about this sacrament then do no go through with it. You should only do this when you are led to by the Holy Spirit. Just because you do not get confirmed does not mean you are not a Christian and does not mean you are not Catholic. But know this, even if you do not recieve the Sacrament of Reconciliation, that does not mean you should not seek forgiveness. The only way you can be saved and a follower of Christ is to admit that you have sinned and repent of your sins. You must ask Him for forgiveness. You can do this alone or with someone else guiding you. Realize that in doing this, you accept Christ, and your life will forever change. I promise for the better

    Now as for the catechism... You have to understand that there are 1.5 billion Christians in the world. 75% are Catholic or Orthodox. Of the 1 billion that are Catholic, many are bound to get things messed up. For example, the Church venerates Mary as the Mother of God. That means she is honored for the sacrifice she made to God. We also honor the disciples and saints for the sacrifices they made for God. We strive to be like these individuals for their faith and obediance was great. Some members of the Church take it too far. Some worship these individuals as gods. There is only ONE God, but these confused individuals are simply that, confused. The same goes with the catechism. The catechism is simply a book of guidelines to assist in faithful Christian living. It does not counter the Bible and should not be taken as supreme to it. Alot of confused Catholics will say the opposite. I assure you that this is not the view of the Vatican. Those that believe the catechism is greater than the Bible are lost. But every group of believers will have those that are confused. The Catholic Church simply has alot more because we are by far the biggest denomination of Christianity. That is both a good and bad thing.

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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amos_with_goats View Post
    Thanks to all for the replies. I appreciate the tone of this, and am going to refrain from moving this to World Religions for the sake of the OP.


    When I was in the Catholic Church, I noticed a phenomena among my peers where confession was seen as a 'get out of hell free card' in a sense.

    If I consider the discussions of purity among my RCC peers, and later among POC friends (Plain Ole Christian) I saw a completely different attitude about sin.

    One of the reasons I believe the Lord lead me out of the Roman Catholic Church was the supplanting of my relationship with Christ by a
    relationship with man. The sacrament of reconciliation is an excellent example of this.

    While there can be great value in confession (I wept last Sunday, as I confessed to and prayed with my brothers)... there is absolutely ZERO room in our relationship with the Lord for an intermediary. The RCC Priest is very much in that role, and the flesh loves that.

    I encourage you, what ever path you choose.... make NO provision for the flesh.

    Blessings,

    Well said, and the truth shall set you free.
    If Satan can keep us busy swinging our swords at one another, there is no hope of a united attack on the kingdom of darkness. KJV, NIV, ESV or ABCDEFG; there is no time to bicker over such things. We'll devour each other if allowed to continue. We should grab the marching orders written in the way we best understand and get to work.

    Andrew_no_one





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    Re: For young Catholics, or anyone: What's up with Confession?

    I John 1
    8 - If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    9 - If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    We confess to the Father. He is faithful and righteous, not a man.

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