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Thread: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

  1. #1

    Lightbulb The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Hey guys, I realize I'm a n00b but I thought I might get a discussion going,
    or at least find some clarity:

    I came across this a few days ago and found it VERY interesting.
    Apparently, so I've learned from 2 un-scholarly/non-refereed sources
    that the tetragrammaton the Lord gave to Moses was a foretelling in itself of the coming of the Christ in this:
    The letters that make up the Hebrew tetragrammaton also have words that they translate to by themselves.
    Y - Yod also means "behold" "look at"
    H - Heh also means "Hand"
    V - Vau also means "Nail"

    So the direct translation of it is "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail."

    Here is some of the source information
    (YHWH), the name of God.The literal meaning of each of the 4 letters is: Yod= Hand, Heh = Behold/look at, Vav= Nail, Heh=Behold/look at, so the 4 letters read right to left as Hebrew, are "Look at/Behold the nail, look at/behold the hand"
    So to me this is awe-inspiring, that when I read that part of Exodus I felt humbled in seeing that even before the prophets enter the Bible, God has already made quite the connection between what He is and What He was to come (I use that wordage for a reason in relation to "I am that I am" or "I always have been, I am, and I always will be" being typical English translations of God's name)
    Also, I thought I'd mention that when I learned this it automatically made me think of Thomas:
    "27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." John 20:27 KJV
    But this isn't just a thread about praising God, I was wondering if there is anyone who has more information on this. Is this legit? I mean does the Hebrew literal translation/transliteration really come out as thus? I believe it anyway, but I was hoping someone had an article, a bit of understanding about how that works.
    Does anyone know Hebrew? I've studied some Aramaic but my textbook doesn't help any. Or is this old news everyone knows?

    Thanks, and just to for reference here's the Line from Exodus:
    "14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Exodus 3:14 (KJV)

  2. #2

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    What is claimed in your source is from ancient Hebrew, this is different to the writing we have or call Hebrew today or even Biblical Hebrew for that matter. But even if we went along with it you can see that it is stretching the meaning of words to accommodate someone's agenda no matter how good hearted the person may be we have a duty to be honest with the Biblical text.

    Ancient Hebrew chart

    Check out the meaning for yad, its not what is proposed by your source. Even if it was these are two different languages and you cannot mix and match and interchange them.

    Sorry to put a downer on it. It wont harm the diety of Christ in the slightest, He said He was one with the Father and thats good enough for me we dont need these mystical hidden meanings, He said it publicly.

    I like your tranlation of the Divine Name as " I AM THAT I AM" i read a article on this and it says that this was is Gods covenant name as He was Going to Be their God and be with them. Other translations include “I will be what (who) I will be”; “I will cause to be what I will cause to be”; “I will be who I am/I am who I will be.” The last-noted may well be the best option, in essence: “I will be God for you.” The force of the name is not simply that God is or that God is present, but that God will be faithfully God for them in the history that is to follow.


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark on the Wall View Post
    Hey guys, I realize I'm a n00b but I thought I might get a discussion going,
    or at least find some clarity:

    I came across this a few days ago and found it VERY interesting.
    Apparently, so I've learned from 2 un-scholarly/non-refereed sources
    that the tetragrammaton the Lord gave to Moses was a foretelling in itself of the coming of the Christ in this:
    The letters that make up the Hebrew tetragrammaton also have words that they translate to by themselves.
    Y - Yod also means "behold" "look at"
    H - Heh also means "Hand"
    V - Vau also means "Nail"

    So the direct translation of it is "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail."

    Here is some of the source information
    So to me this is awe-inspiring, that when I read that part of Exodus I felt humbled in seeing that even before the prophets enter the Bible, God has already made quite the connection between what He is and What He was to come (I use that wordage for a reason in relation to "I am that I am" or "I always have been, I am, and I always will be" being typical English translations of God's name)
    Also, I thought I'd mention that when I learned this it automatically made me think of Thomas:
    But this isn't just a thread about praising God, I was wondering if there is anyone who has more information on this. Is this legit? I mean does the Hebrew literal translation/transliteration really come out as thus? I believe it anyway, but I was hoping someone had an article, a bit of understanding about how that works.
    Does anyone know Hebrew? I've studied some Aramaic but my textbook doesn't help any. Or is this old news everyone knows?

    Thanks, and just to for reference here's the Line from Exodus:
    Can you posts a link to your source? I would like to take a look at it. I did a search and found this:

    Names of God in Judaism on Wikipedia...which sadly can't be completely trusted..but it says the same things you are.

    I saw several other sites saying this too, but none I would feel I could trust completely. I would rather find a very trusted site first. Its interesting though. Thanks for the discussion.

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  4. #4

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    I think understanding the meaning of God's sacred name starts in Exodus 6:6-7 “Therefore, say to the Israelites: ‘I am Tetragrammation, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment. I will take you as my own people, and I will be your God. Then you will know that I am Tetragrammation your God, who brought you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians."

    God's name is an expression of His redemptive heart! It says here that, "Then you will know that I am Yahuah" after He . . . Frees them from the Egyptians, Redeems them with mighty acts, Takes them as His own people, and Becomes their God.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark on the Wall View Post
    Hey guys, I realize I'm a n00b but I thought I might get a discussion going,
    or at least find some clarity:

    I came across this a few days ago and found it VERY interesting.
    Apparently, so I've learned from 2 un-scholarly/non-refereed sources
    that the tetragrammaton the Lord gave to Moses was a foretelling in itself of the coming of the Christ in this:
    The letters that make up the Hebrew tetragrammaton also have words that they translate to by themselves.
    Y - Yod also means "behold" "look at"
    H - Heh also means "Hand"
    V - Vau also means "Nail"

    So the direct translation of it is "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail."

    Here is some of the source information
    So to me this is awe-inspiring, that when I read that part of Exodus I felt humbled in seeing that even before the prophets enter the Bible, God has already made quite the connection between what He is and What He was to come (I use that wordage for a reason in relation to "I am that I am" or "I always have been, I am, and I always will be" being typical English translations of God's name)
    Also, I thought I'd mention that when I learned this it automatically made me think of Thomas:
    But this isn't just a thread about praising God, I was wondering if there is anyone who has more information on this. Is this legit? I mean does the Hebrew literal translation/transliteration really come out as thus? I believe it anyway, but I was hoping someone had an article, a bit of understanding about how that works.
    Does anyone know Hebrew? I've studied some Aramaic but my textbook doesn't help any. Or is this old news everyone knows?

    Thanks, and just to for reference here's the Line from Exodus:
    The pictograph of the letter "Yud" looks like a forearm with a hand.
    The pictograph for the letter
    "Hey" looks like a man with his arms raised
    The pictograph for the letter
    "Vav" looks like a tentpeg or a nail
    So when the inscription was made on the cross,
    (The Latin = INRI) in Hebrew it read YHVH...

    From
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th..._Jesus%27_head
    The final language on the sign was Hebrew which is the Jewish language. Now the first word was Yehoshuah (Jesus). The first letter of that is the smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet. It is the little yod, which looks like an apostrophe. (Hebrew is read from right to left.) Yehoshuah and according to the Bible it was "Jesus the Nazarene." The next word was ha Nazarite. The next word would be "and," which is what we call a wha. It is like a little line with a hook on top. The next one would be the king of Jews Hamelech Yudio. What you had on the cross reading from right to left in the first letter, are the four letters of the Tetragrammaton YHWH. YHWH is the covenant name of God in the Old Testament Hebrew which did not have vowels (today we know this as Yahweh). In John 19:19-22 the chief Priests wanted Pilate to take the sign down because the sign recognized Jesus as Yahweh or God.
    Last edited by Ta-An; Jan 25th 2013 at 07:08 AM. Reason: the links did not show...
    The LORD is my Miracle

    G_d was gracious He has shown favor


    Hope is a seed
    God plants in our hearts
    to remind us
    there are better things ahead.
    -Holley Gerth


  6. #6

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Minor quibble. It's Waw, not vav.

    Yud, Hey, Waw, Hey, or Yahuah is the Father's name, identifying His redemptive heart as expressed in Exodus 6:7,8. The son Yahushah came in His Father Yahuah's name and is an expression of that same redemptive heart, so we don't need to mystically make His name appear somehow on the cross to get that. The Son is the Father's name . . . on the cross!

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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by eprom61 View Post
    Minor quibble. It's Waw, not vav.

    Yud, Hey, Waw, Hey, or Yahuah is the Father's name, identifying His redemptive heart as expressed in Exodus 6:7,8. The son Yahushah came in His Father Yahuah's name and is an expression of that same redemptive heart, so we don't need to mystically make His name appear somehow on the cross to get that. The Son is the Father's name . . . on the cross!


    Never mind
    The LORD is my Miracle

    G_d was gracious He has shown favor


    Hope is a seed
    God plants in our hearts
    to remind us
    there are better things ahead.
    -Holley Gerth


  8. #8

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    here is what you are looking for .>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wiBtYITrxM

  9. #9
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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Hello, Mark on the Wall, and welcome. If we want to link Jesus to YHWH (as the divine name of God), there is a much easier way, that does not leave the matter open to debate: the Hebrew for the name Jesus is the equivalent of YHWH, with the Hebrew for "Savior" (Yeshua), incorporated into it.

    If the NT had been written in Hebrew, we would know our Savior as "Yehoshua," rather than Jesus. And the literal translation of Yehoshua is: YHWH-Savior," or "YHWH is salvation." Yehoshua is actually the same as the Hebrew name that Moses applied to Joshua, which is translated Jehoshua in the KJV:
    6 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua. (Numbers 13:16)

    Yet, while the Hebrew for Jesus and Joshua are the same, Jesus actually fulfilled the MEANING of the name. We see that in Matthew 1:20-21, where that meaning is literally and clearly applied to Jesus:
    But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Matthew is plainly telling us that the very name, Jesus means "Savior of His people." One cannot interpret that verse any other way without twisting the meaning. Jesus (Yehoshua) means "God will save His people from their sins," or "YHWH is Salvation."

    So clearly, Jesus embodies the name YHWH, with the addition of the attribute "Savior" incorporated into it--a perfect picture of Who and what Jesus was born to be in the plan of God. Indeed, God revealed this very truth to the venerable old Simeon at the temple, when he beheld the infant Jesus:
    25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30for mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (Luke 2:25-32)
    Last edited by Sojourner55; Feb 3rd 2013 at 03:08 PM.

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

  10. #10

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
    While the Hebrew for Jesus and Joshua are the same, Jesus actually fulfilled the MEANING of the name. We see that in Matthew 1:20-21, where that meaning is literally and clearly applied to Jesus:
    But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Matthew is plainly telling us that the very name, Jesus means "Savior of His people." One cannot interpret that verse any other way without twisting the meaning. Jesus (Yehoshua) means "God will save His people from their sins," or "YHWH is Salvation."
    This is an important topic and the church is just waking up to this truth, but to rely wholly on ideographic symbolism to define what the Fathers name means is spurious. Suggesting that the Father's sacred name is "behold the hand, behold the nail", I would suggest is nothing more than a distraction to the real substance of it's meaning found in Exodus 6.

    Most words in Ancient Hebrew work on a parent root system, which is to say two letters are combined to form the parent root, and then other letters are joined together with the parent root to create child root variants. The interesting application of this point that so many Bible students seem to miss, is the first two letters of the Tetragrammation combine to form the name of God "Yah" (Strong’s #3050) as in Hallelu-Yah. Yah identifies what would be the parent root in God's sacred name and the following letters would be used to express something of His character, such as:
    EL SHADDAI – meaning, “God (El) Almighty”
    EL ELYON – meaning, “God (El) Most High”
    EL ROI – meaning, “God (El) Sees”
    El SIMCHATH GILI – meaning, “God (El) My Exceeding Joy”
    El HAAKABODH – meaning, “God (El) of Glory”
    El HAY – meaning, “Living (El) God”
    Eli MAELEKHI – meaning, “God (El) My King”
    El SALI – meaning, “God (El), My Rock”

    Where God's name EL is the theophoric element in each of these names. So how do we determine what His name means? It starts in Exodus 6, which says:
    When - I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians.
    When - I will free you from being slaves to them
    When - I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment.
    When - I will take you as my own people
    When - I will be your God.

    Then you will know that I am Yahuah your God

    God's sacred name Yahuah is absolutely tied to the His redemptive heart and purposes!

    How does the Fathers name tie together with the Son's name? Jesus is an altered variant of Old English word Iesus - in fact the 1611 King James bible didn't have any letter "J"s at all. Iesus was a transliteration of the Greek word Iesous, which is an altered variant of the ancient Greek word Ihsous used in the Septuagint. Ihsous was a transliteration of the Hebrew word Yahushah (Strong's H3091) or Joshua, which means "Yah" is salvation.

    So it wasn't that they used a better word "Jesus" than the Hebrew term. Jesus is a really just a contorted non-translation that really doesn't mean anything. But it comes from the Hebrew term that only has one letter difference from the Fathers name and means Yah is salvation. So when the Son says in the Gospel of John that He came in the Father's name, he really did come in the Father's name.

    See the full discussion on this topic here: http://www.name-above-every-name.com

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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Sometimes I think we can make more out of something than was intended. Perhaps the information in the OP is correct, does it matter? The name "YHWH" is a play on the word hayah, which means "to be." YHWH then, as a word, is simply a declaration of God's eternal existence. "I am, I was, I will be," would be about as literal as can be.... and I think contextually... that declaration is what makes YHWH unique. False gods are real, but they have a fate, an end, YHWH does not. Blessings. LS

  12. #12

    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by LandShark View Post
    Sometimes I think we can make more out of something than was intended. Perhaps the information in the OP is correct, does it matter? The name "YHWH" is a play on the word hayah, which means "to be." YHWH then, as a word, is simply a declaration of God's eternal existence. "I am, I was, I will be," would be about as literal as can be.... and I think contextually... that declaration is what makes YHWH unique. False gods are real, but they have a fate, an end, YHWH does not. Blessings. LS
    Yahuah is connected to the term HaYah form Exodus 3:14 but not in this way.

    Many have suggested that YHWH is the future tense form of the HaYah reference in Exodus 3:14 but there is no future tense in Ancient Hebrew. There is only one verb form in the Hebrew Bible that marks tense called a Past Narrative and marks past tense. And . . . there is no Ancient Hebrew or Biblical Hebrew verb anywhere in existence which is spelled yod-hey-waw-heh. It's a fabrication. According to the rules of the Masoretic vowel system, WHICH IS VERY, VERY LATE (beginning about AD 700), IF the verb “to be” were to take the third person masculine singular IMPEFECT, it would probably look like yod-hey-waw-heh according to these rules. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist except in verb charts written in modern Biblical Hebrew grammar books and has no baring on the Ancient Hebrew that the scriptures were actually recorded in.

    However, both YHWH . . . what should be pronounce as Yahuah, and the term HaYah do have in common is the same Ancient Hebrew parent-root Yah. This is why we see God mention His name as HaYah in Exodus 3:14 and then as Yahuah from this point on. His name Yah is interwoven into both of these terms, but it is Yahuah that defines His redemptive character and would become His celebration name from this point on (Exodus 3:15)

    But to suggest that it doesn't matter??? This simply a lack of knowledge regarding the importance scripture conveys about God's sacred name.

    “If you do not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name,” says Yahuah of hosts, “then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart. “Behold, I am going to rebuke your offspring, and I will spread refuse on your faces, the refuse of your feasts; and you will be taken away with it. “Then you will know that I have sent this commandment to you, that My covenant may continue with Levi,” says Yahuah of hosts. “My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name. Malachi 2:2-5

    Then those who feared Yahuah talked with each other, and Yahuah listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in His presence concerning those who feared Yahuah and honored His name. “They will be mine,” says Yahuah Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.” Malachi 3:16–17

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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by eprom61 View Post
    Yahuah is connected to the term HaYah form Exodus 3:14 but not in this way.

    Many have suggested that YHWH is the future tense form of the HaYah reference in Exodus 3:14 but there is no future tense in Ancient Hebrew. There is only one verb form in the Hebrew Bible that marks tense called a Past Narrative and marks past tense. And . . . there is no Ancient Hebrew or Biblical Hebrew verb anywhere in existence which is spelled yod-hey-waw-heh. It's a fabrication. According to the rules of the Masoretic vowel system, WHICH IS VERY, VERY LATE (beginning about AD 700), IF the verb “to be” were to take the third person masculine singular IMPEFECT, it would probably look like yod-hey-waw-heh according to these rules. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist except in verb charts written in modern Biblical Hebrew grammar books and has no baring on the Ancient Hebrew that the scriptures were actually recorded in.

    However, both YHWH . . . what should be pronounce as Yahuah, and the term HaYah do have in common is the same Ancient Hebrew parent-root Yah. This is why we see God mention His name as HaYah in Exodus 3:14 and then as Yahuah from this point on. His name Yah is interwoven into both of these terms, but it is Yahuah that defines His redemptive character and would become His celebration name from this point on (Exodus 3:15)

    But to suggest that it doesn't matter??? This simply a lack of knowledge regarding the importance scripture conveys about God's sacred name.

    “If you do not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name,” says Yahuah of hosts, “then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart. “Behold, I am going to rebuke your offspring, and I will spread refuse on your faces, the refuse of your feasts; and you will be taken away with it. “Then you will know that I have sent this commandment to you, that My covenant may continue with Levi,” says Yahuah of hosts. “My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name. Malachi 2:2-5

    Then those who feared Yahuah talked with each other, and Yahuah listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in His presence concerning those who feared Yahuah and honored His name. “They will be mine,” says Yahuah Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.” Malachi 3:16–17
    Thank you for sharing

    This is where God reveals a different character aspect through His Name.
    Israel knew God as the God of creation,,, and when He rescued them out of Egypt.... He was know to them as Savior.... or God of Salvation... a new charcteristic revealed through His Name
    The LORD is my Miracle

    G_d was gracious He has shown favor


    Hope is a seed
    God plants in our hearts
    to remind us
    there are better things ahead.
    -Holley Gerth


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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Oh this again?

    In Hebrew, "Yad" is "hand", not "Yud".

    "Vav" means "hook" not "nail"

    "Behold" is "Hee-nay" not "Hay".
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: The Tetragrammaton and Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Oh this again?

    In Hebrew, "Yad" is "hand", not "Yud".

    "Vav" means "hook" not "nail"

    "Behold" is "Hee-nay" not "Hay".


    Hi my friend
    I think Mark on the Wall mean to say ...'Looks like'
    The LORD is my Miracle

    G_d was gracious He has shown favor


    Hope is a seed
    God plants in our hearts
    to remind us
    there are better things ahead.
    -Holley Gerth


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