NCV....

[MaryFreeman]

I guess this is the place for it right?

Who has read the NCV bible?

Can you tell me what you think?

[CommanderRobey]

I have the NCV. I call it the New Catholic Version because it gives license to baptize unbelievers. Notice the following verses from Acts 8:

36While they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The officer said, “Look, here is water. What is stopping me from being baptized?”£
38Then the officer commanded the chariot to stop. Both Philip and the officer went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

Notice the Ethiopian did not have to profess faith in Christ? The fact is, the Catholic Church, and sadly many of our New Age Feel Good Congregations, baptize people who know nothing about faith in Christ.

It is Bibles like the NCV that cause many to be deceived into believing and receiving another gospel than that which Paul delivered unto the saints.

The NCV, like so many of the modern version, removes many important verses from the Word of God.

[Radagast]

I have the NCV. I call it the New Catholic Version because it gives license to baptize unbelievers. Notice the following verses from Acts 8:

36While they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The officer said, “Look, here is water. What is stopping me from being baptized?”£
38Then the officer commanded the chariot to stop. Both Philip and the officer went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

That's a misquote. What the NCV actually has (see here) is this:

While they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The officer said, "Look, here is water. What is stopping me from being baptized?" { Philip answered, "If you believe with all your heart, you can." The officer said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." }* Then the officer commanded the chariot to stop. Both Philip and the officer went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

*Some Greek copies do not contain the bracketed text.

The fact is that the oldest Greek manuscripts (such as this one) do not contain the bracketed text, and so most translations put verse 37 in brackets or in a footnote. This is not an NCV-specific issue. Also, there is no Catholic connection.

I'm not saying the NCV is any good, but let's keep the debate honest and accurate.

The origins of the NCV are as an easy-to-read Bible (see here), and should be compared to other easy-to-read/children's versions like the Contemporary English Version. The NCV is much less accurate than the ESV, NIV, or other "standard" modern versions, while the NIV is readable enough for most adults and older children. For adults wanting something easier than the NIV, "The Message" is probably better, in my opinion.

[CommanderRobey]

That's a misquote. What the NCV actually has (see here) is this:

While they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The officer said, "Look, here is water. What is stopping me from being baptized?" { Philip answered, "If you believe with all your heart, you can." The officer said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." }* Then the officer commanded the chariot to stop. Both Philip and the officer went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

*Some Greek copies do not contain the bracketed text.

The fact is that the oldest Greek manuscripts (such as this one) do not contain the bracketed text, and so most translations put verse 37 in brackets or in a footnote. This is not an NCV-specific issue.

I don't know if the NCV is any good, but let's keep the debate honest and accurate.

Not a misqoute at all. I have the NCV and copied it word for word.

Also, the footnote is deceiving. It should say that their oldest texts omit the section. They have no proof whatsoever that the texts they use are the oldest.

[MaryFreeman]

Not a misqoute at all. I have the NCV and copied it word for word.

Also, the footnote is deceiving. It should say that their oldest texts omit the section. They have no proof whatsoever that the texts they use are the oldest.

Mine lists verse 37 but doesn't add the verse.... Just a letter directing me to the footnote.... Then it puts the verse there.... But the main body skips to verse 38.... What other passages did you find missing?

[Radagast]

Not a misqoute at all. I have the NCV and copied it word for word.

The NCV is online here, so readers can judge the truth. I'm not defending the NCV however: as stated above, I think the NIV is far superior.

Also, the footnote is deceiving. It should say that their oldest texts omit the section. They have no proof whatsoever that the texts they use are the oldest.

According to Metzger, not a single manuscript from before AD 500 contains Acts 8:37 -- the Codex Laudianus is the oldest manuscript including it. That doesn't mean the doctrine in verse 37 isn't true: but it does look like someone added verse 37 centuries after the NT was written.

[CommanderRobey]

Mine lists verse 37 but doesn't add the verse.... Just a letter directing me to the footnote.... Then it puts the verse there.... But the main body skips to verse 38.... What other passages did you find missing?

1 John 5:7 leaves off "The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost"

All of these verses are missing from the NCV:
Matthew 17:21 Matthew 18:11 Matthew 23:14 Mark 7:16 Mark 9:44 Mark 9:46 Mark 11:26 Mark 15:28 Luke 17:36 Luke 23:17 John 5:4 Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34 Acts 24:7 Acts 28:29 Romans 16:24

Luke 4:4 tells us that "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." NCV remvoes the last 6 words of that verse. Why did they remove it? To lessen the impact of their removal of words and full verses from the Word of God.

[Radagast]

...Luke 4:4 tells us that "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." NCV remvoes the last 6 words of that verse. Why did they remove it? To lessen the impact of their removal of words and full verses from the Word of God.

They didn't "remove" the last 6 words of Luke 4:4 -- those words are not found in the oldest NT manuscripts. Those words do, however, occur in the remainder of the Deut 8:3 passage Jesus is quoting, and the NCV has those words there (although in a rather poor translation).

[CommanderRobey]

They didn't "remove" the last 6 words of Luke 4:4 -- those words are not found in the oldest NT manuscripts. Those words do, however, occur in the remainder of the Deut 8:3 passage Jesus is quoting, and the NCV has those words there (although in a rather poor translation).

They are not in the oldest manuscripts we have today. But they were in manuscripts that were available when the KJV was written... even centuries prior to that when Wycliffe penned the first handwritten Bible in English.

You can't convince me that God kept men for nearly 19 Centuries in the dark, (not having the true Word of God) and now, in the last 2 Centuries is giving man this alleged truth that for 19 Centuries man was decieved into believing a lie.

Sorry, my Bible says people will believe the lie in the last days. It does not say until the last days.

[CommanderRobey]

double post... edited.

[CommanderRobey]

The writers of the NCV must have a problem with hell. In Psalm 9:17, their version says "Wicked people will go to the grave." News Flash... we all go to the grave, saved and unsaved alike.

They even put the devil in the grave instead of hell:

15 But you were brought down to the grave, to the deep places where the dead are.

The NCV is a counterfeit Bible.

[Radagast]

They are not in the oldest manuscripts we have today. But they were in manuscripts that were available when the KJV was written... even centuries prior to that when Wycliffe penned the first handwritten Bible in English.

In those days they had fewer old manuscripts than we have today, because of discoveries in the last 200 years or so

You can't convince me that God kept men for nearly 19 Centuries in the dark, (not having the true Word of God) and now, in the last 2 Centuries is giving man this alleged truth that for 19 Centuries man was decieved into believing a lie.

I never said that -- the verses in question don't relate to points of doctrine, because in most cases there are undisputed verses elsewhere in the Bible that say the same thing. And if you're going to argue by the version that was used for the most centuries, you should use the Latin Vulgate (which doesn't have Acts 8:37).

The writers of the NCV must have a problem with hell. In Psalm 9:17, their version says "Wicked people will go to the grave." News Flash... we all go to the grave, saved and unsaved alike.

You keep imputing motives to people without evidence. In Psalm 9:17, the Hebrew word is sheol. The KJV translates that word as "grave" as often as it translates it "hell", so you can hardly blame the translators of the NCV for doing the same thing.

The NCV is a counterfeit Bible.

It's a very poor translation, on the whole, but for different reasons than the ones you've given.

[Diggindeeper]

I say if it is that questionable, I'd go with a different Bible.

[Jemand]

They are not in the oldest manuscripts we have today. But they were in manuscripts that were available when the KJV was written... even centuries prior to that when Wycliffe penned the first handwritten Bible in English.

You can't convince me that God kept men for nearly 19 Centuries in the dark, (not having the true Word of God) and now, in the last 2 Centuries is giving man this alleged truth that for 19 Centuries man was decieved into believing a lie.

Sorry, my Bible says people will believe the lie in the last days. It does not say until the last days.

God has never kept anyone in the dark who has placed his faith and trust in Him, but we also know for certain that men are sometimes more careless than we would like for them to be, and we know for certain that all of the original New Testament documents have been lost for nearly 2,000 years and that we do not even have any of the hundreds of copies of them that were made during the first century. We also know for certain that by the second century, the manuscripts of the New Testament were becoming corrupted by scribal errors of various kinds, and that as the centuries passed, these manuscripts were copied with succeeding copies of them being made, and so forth—resulting in more and more corruptions of the text.

The KJV was translated mostly from a Greek text compiled from very late manuscripts copied at a time when the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches were in the very depths of superstition and false doctrines. This compilation was done by the Dutch Roman Catholic and humanist scholar Desiderius Erasmus and revised by the French printer, Robert Estienne (also known as Robert Stephens or Stephanus). Of the four critical editions of the Greek New Testament printed by Robert Estienne, the third edition was a masterpiece of printing and became the most popular. This third edition is commonly known today by several names, including “The Stephens’ (or Stephanus) Text of 1550,” “The Received Test,” and the “Textus Receptus.” This third edition was the backbone of the New Testament in the KJV even though it is seriously flawed with numerous mistakes.

The term “Textus Receptus” or “Received Text” (TR) originated from the second edition of the Greek text published in 1633 by the Elzevir brothers of Leyden. In the preface to this edition, the publisher wrote, “textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum” (“therefore you have the text now received by all”). This term is now generally applied to about 30 different editions of the Greek New Testament, including the following:

The five editions produced by Erasmus (1516, 1519, 1522, 1527, 1535)
The four editions produced by Robert Estienne (1546, 1549, 1550, 1551)
The nine editions produced by Theodore de Beza (between 1565 and 1604)
The three editions produced by the Elzevir brothers (1624, 1633, 1641)

The first printings of the KJV in 1611 not only reflected the errors in the Greek text of the New Testament, but errors of the translators and printers. Between 1611 and the 1760’s, scholars at the universities of Cambridge and Oxford gradually corrected many of these errors and today’s Cambridge King James Bibles differ from Oxford King James Bibles in only four places. Some King James Bibles printed today by other publishers differ from the Cambridge and Oxford King James Bibles in many places. Almost all King James Bibles being printed today, including all of the Cambridge and Oxford King James Bibles, retain a printing error in Matt. 23:24, “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” In this verse, the word “at” is a printing error, the correct word is “out.” Both the Greek text from which the KJV was translated and the context in which the verse is found prove uncontrovertibly that this is the case.

Let us look at the context in which Matt. 23:24 appears,

23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Jesus is rebuking the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy. In verse 24, he is telling them that they strain out a gnat (from their wine and other beverages) but swallow a camel. This is a clear and obvious reference to the practice of the Jews of straining out gnats from their wine and other beverages in order to avoid violating the Old Testament Law,

Lev. 11:41. And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.
42. Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
43. Ye shall not make your selves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

What hypocrites! They strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel! Gnats were the smallest creatures that the first-century Jews were familiar with, camels were the largest; and gnats are not specifically referred to in their Law, but camels are,

Lev. 11:4. Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

What hypocrites! They pay the tithe of mint and anise and cummin, but omit performing the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. They strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel! They make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.


God is not keeping anyone in the dark; as the errors in the KJV of 1611 were corrected during the next 150+ years, the KJV shined brighter and brighter. Further revision of the Authorized (King James Version) was undertaken in consequence of a Resolution passed by both houses of the Convocation of the Province of Canterbury and the result was The Holy Bible Containing the Old and New Testaments Translated Out of the Original Tongues; Being the Version Set Forth A. D. 1611 Compared with the Most Ancient Authorities and Revised, 1881-1885. The American counterpart, the American Standard Version was published in 1901. The text was copyrighted to protect it from alterations and in 1928, the copyright was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education. In 1937, this council authorized the revision of the American Standard Version; the result was the Revised Standard Version (the New Testament in 1946 and the entire Bible in 1952). The New Testament was revised and published in 1971. Since that time, new discoveries and interpretations of Semitic languages related to Hebrew made it apparent that the Revised Standard Version had become outdated and the New Revised Standard Version was the result. As the Holy Spirit leads archaeologists in their search for more accurate and precise information pertaining to the translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greeks texts that underlie our English translations, we can expect to see new and more accurate translations of the Bible being published.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the KJV.)

[Liquid Tension]

The NCV, from what little I've read it, to me seems close to the NLT in terms of "ease of readability". Like every other Bible version, it has strenghts and weaknesses. If a person likes it, buy it and use it..........if they don't like it, don't buy it or read it!!

Don't understand why people want to start throwing around the "counterfeit" tag on anything that's not KJV. If it was a NWT, then I'd say toss it.