The 7th Trumpet

[Servant89]

I would like to share 7 hints in the Bible indicating the rapture will occur at the 7th trumpet.

Peace

[Servant89]

The 7th Trumpet (and nothing else). At the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be established.

Hint # 1. God will gather his elect on resurrection day (and the rapture) with the sound of a trumpet (blown by angels).

Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hint # 2. According to 1Cor 15:52, the rapture will take place at the last trumpet (not before the first trumpet).

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The word “last” implies there will be some before and none after. Now, let’s pretend that God is not the God of confusion and that the last trumpet documented in the last book of the Bible (the 7th trumpet) is indeed the last trumpet. Hang in there, let’s see if there are other witnesses.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 3. We are not appointed to Wrath, and that means the rapture must take place before the wrath of God arrives. The Bible says that the God’s wrath arrives at the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:18).

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Rev 11: 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 4. The Bible states that Jesus will resurrect his elect (John 6:39,40,44) on the last day. The last day is when time runs out, when time is no more, and that day is clearly stated to arrive at the 7th trumpet (Rev 10:5-7). There can not be any rapture without a resurrection of the dead (1th 4:16-17).

Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Ephesians 1:10 states that the second coming (with resurrection and rapture) will occur at the fullness of times (another term for the last day, when there is time no more).

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 5. The Bible states in Acts 3:21 that Jesus must remain in heaven (will not come down to rapture us) until the time of restitution of all things. Webster dictionary defines “restitution” as “something restored back to its original owner”. The 7th trumpet is also the time when all the kingdoms of this world will be restored back to their rightful owner (Jesus Christ, Rev 11:15).

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 6: The Mystery

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Eph 1: 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

When we (the body) join Christ Jesus (the head) we will become one... on the day of the rapture.

Eph 5: 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 7 The SIGN of his coming.

Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And what is the SIGN of his coming? I do not know for sure, but the Bible gives us a great hint. The only time in history that God came down, he rehearsed it in the sight of Israel showing them the signs of his coming. Those signs were clouds, thunders, lightings, voices, and a great earthquake (hail was missing because the purpose of hail was to kill people and God was just doing a rehearsal in Exo 19:16-19).

Exo 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven…
19 …and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Shalom

[Amos_with_goats]

Very nice. Well presented...

Look forward to the discussion.

[Servant89]

Hint # 8 The Wedding of the Lamb and the third day

Pre-tribers believe that the wedding of the Lamb has to be during the 7 year tribulation BEFORE the second coming in order for Jesus to bring them back with him at the second coming. But the Bible has strong evidence that the wedding of the Lamb is going to be after the great tribulation and the 7th trumpet is the moment to get it going. There will be no rapture until there is a resurrection of the dead first. The second coming with the signs of his coming is connected with the third day.

Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Jesus himself resurrected on the third day according to Scripture (1Cor 15:1-3)

When God came down in Exo 19, the whole things starts with “And it came to pass on the third day in the morning,” and it makes a connection with the third day being the day with the signs of his coming (thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud and a great earthquake). So, the third day is the day with the signs of his coming, not the invisible imaginary rapture preached today everywhere.

Exo 19:16 And it came to pass ON THE THIRD DAY in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

The seventh trumpet shows the signs of his coming just like the third day of Exo 19.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven…
19 …and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Here it comes, see the connection of the third day of Exo 19:16 with John 2:

Jn 2:1 AND THE THIRD DAY there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

That wedding was not 7 years before the third day. It was on the third day. Why would the HS say that? What is so important to document it was the third day (when that wedding started)?

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 9: God's Style of Parallels

God did this a few times in the Old Testament. Using parallels. For example:

Prov 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

But what follows next is not a list of (6+7=) 13 things. It is a list that fulfills both a list of 6 and a list of 7 (notice that #2 and # 6 are the same thing)

Prov 6:17 (1) A proud look, (2) a lying tongue, (3) and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 (4) An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, (5) feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 (6) A false witness that speaketh lies, and (7) he that soweth discord among brethren.

The seals, trumpets and vials of Revelation follow that divine patern of expression in parallels. The key here is to see that the 7th seal is the same event of the 7th trumpet, and also the 7th vial for in all of those we see the sign of his coming. All of those 3 have lightings, thunders, voices, a great earthquake and hail which are the signs of his coming as shown in post # 7.

When Matthew stated in Chapter 24:21,29-31 that the great tribulation is over when the 6th seal is opened, he meant it. It is over. The best way to see the trumpets and vials as inside the Great Tribulation is to place the trumpets and vials in parallel with the seals like this.

.................................................. ..........GREAT TRIBULATION ENDS HERE|

SEALS…….1……..2….3….4………………………………………………………………..5... ........…6…….7
TRUMPETS …………………………………………………………............1…234..5.......… 6….....….7
VIALS…………………………………………………………………………………..…….......123 456...........7

Notice that the Bible says that seal # 5 is almost at the end (Rev 6:11), that is why I placed there.

Notice that the Bible says that the 6th trumpet deals with the Euphrates (Rev 6:13-14) and so does the 6th vial (Rev 16:12). That is why I put them at the same time (the time of Armaggedom). Armaggeddom is often shown in the OT connected with the 6th seal because it is followed by the six seal.

Notice also that the day that comes as a thief in the night is the one that comes after the 6th vial (Rev 16:15, 2Pet 3:10; 1Th 4:16-5:2 and Joel 2:9-11)

Notice also that God's wrath arrives after the 6th seal (Rev 6:12-17) and also at the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15-18)

That idea that a pre-tribulation rapture is the day that comes as a thief in the night is... wait, wait, wait, I have it, .... wait... oh yeah, the Greek word for that is Baloney.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Hint # 10 - There is one unavoidable requirement for the rapture, it can not happen until first there is... (the first resurrection of Rev 20:1-5)

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But there will be no resurrection of the dead until ... what a coincidence ! Can you believe this? The Bible is in harmony with itself ! no resurrection until the 6th seal happens first, just like Matthew 24 tells us.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

The 6th seal

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Is it me or is this too clear? Could it be that God is not the God of confusion?

Shalom

[Servant89]

Here is a short summary of my studies on this subject. You can have in one minute what took me years to figure out. Enjoy.

The post tribulation rapture position is seen in the following Scriptures:

1. Matthew 24:29 states that immediately AFTER the great tribulation of Mat 24:21, the 6th seal will be opened (Mat 24:29-31) and then Jesus will come down to resurrect his people that were in heaven and rapture those that will be on earth (Mar 13:27). That means, that when the 6th seal is open (Rev 6:12-17), the GT is over.
2. Rev 6:12-17 states the day of wrath arrives after the 6th seal. Since the great tribulation ends at the 6th seal; that means the day of wrath arrives AFTER the great tribulation.
3. The rapture of 1Th 4:16-17 is called “the day of the Lord” three verses later (1Th 5:2). But the Bible says the day of the Lord will not come until the 6th seal is open (Acts 2:20, Joel 2:31).
4. The rapture (the day of the Lord) will take place on the day that God’s wrath is poured on earth (2 Thes 1:6-8; Isa 13:9-13; Psalm 18:7-19; Rev 14:13-20).
5. The second coming will be like the day of Lot, that the SAME DAY that Lot was taken away by angels, on THE SAME DAY fire and brimstone rained on this world (Luke 17:29-30; Gen 19:22).
6. The Church will rest when we get raptured; and that comes after the GT (2Th 1:6-8) on the day that Jesus comes in flaming fire to punish this world.
7. The Bible states the day of wrath arrives at the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:18).
8. The rapture of 1Th 4:16-17 states that there will be no rapture until FIRST there is a resurrection from the dead. Job 14:12 states there will be no resurrection from the dead until the 6th seal is open (Rev 6:12-17). Therefore, there cannot be any rapture until the 6th seal is open.
9. The Bible mentions the first resurrection (of the righteous) after the seals, trumpets and vials of Revelation… in Rev 20:1-5.
10. The Bible states that Jesus will resurrect his elect (John 6:39,40,44) on the last day. The last day is when time runs out, when time is no more, and that day is clearly stated to arrive at the 7th trumpet (Rev 10:6-7). Ephesians 1:10 states that the second coming (with resurrection and rapture) will occur at the fullness of times (another term for the last day, when there is time no more).
11. According to 1Cor 15:52, the rapture will take place at the last trumpet (not before the first trumpet). The word “last” implies there will be some before and none after. The last trumpet in the Bible is the 7th trumpet.
12. The Bible states in Acts 3:21 that Jesus must remain in heaven (will not come down to rapture us) until the time of restitution of all things. Webster dictionary defines “restitution” as “something restored back to its original owner”. The 7th trumpet is also the time when all the kingdoms of this world will be restored back to their rightful owner (Jesus Christ, Rev 11:15).
13. 2Thes 2:1-3 states the rapture (our gathering together with Him) will not take place until the antichrist is revealed first (not the other way around).
14. The day that comes as a thief in the night is after the GT, after the 6th seal, after all the trumpets and vials (see Rev 16:15; 2Pe 3:10; Joel 2:1-11). It is definitively not a day before the end of the GT.
15. The rapture should not be a day that takes us by surprise. It should not come as a thief in the night for his elect (1Th 5:2; Rev 3:3; 1Cor 2:9-10). We are not supposed to be in darkness because the deep secrets of God the Father have been made available to us the Church through the Spirit.
16. We should seek first the kingdom of God (Mat 6:33). If we do that, everything else will be added unto us. The time of the kingdom of God is the Great Tribulation (Rev 12:10). The Bible says we must go through much tribulation before entering in the Kingdom of God (Acts 14:22). It also says we are appointed to go through tribulation (1Th 3:3-4). The cross brings power (1Cor 1:18 ). I am exceedingly joyful in tribulation (2Cor 7:4). The disciples were happy to be beaten for the name of Jesus (Acts 5:40-42). If they beat Jesus and crucified him, what would they do to the Church? (See Luk 23:31). The Bible says that in this world we shall have tribulation (John 16:33).
17. The Bible calls it the day of Christ when the bride of Jesus (the Church) is presented to him blameless and spotless (1Th 3:13; 1Cor 1:7-8; Phi 1:6,10; Phi 2:15-16; 2Th 2:1-3; 2Cor 1:14; 1Th 2:19; 1Th 5:23). But 2Th 2:1-3 states that day of Christ will not come until FIRST, there be a falling away and the man of sin be revealed. The falling away has to happen first, then the Antichrist has to be revealed, and then, after the antichrist is revealed, then comes our gathering together with him (the rapture), the day of Christ.
18. In the parables of Matthew 13, there is a prophetic order showing the history of the Church from beginning to end. It starts with the sower and it ends at the second coming (harvest time). Israel represents the treasure that was hidden and then found in 1948 (Exo 19:5; Psalm 135:4). After that one comes the pearl (a pearl is created when a grain of sand irritates the oyster and that speaks of tribulation). After the pearl, comes the net, the end of the world.
19. The Church is refined, made blames and spotless, perfect, through affliction and tribulation, just like Jesus (Heb 2:10; Daniel 11:35; Isa 48:10; 1Pet 4:1; 1Pet 5:10).
20. The greatest revival in history will take place during the GT (Rev 7:14). It does not make sense to see that happen when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.
21. The specialty of the HS is to comfort God’s people that are going through tribulation (2Cor 1:4). It does not make sense for God to take the Comforter out of the way, to leave and forsake his people (those that died for him during the GT as shown in Rev 7:14) when we need him the most.
22. The blessed hope that Christians look for in Titus 2:13 is eternal life (Tit 1:2; Tit 3:7) which will come after the GT (we are still mortals, eternal life will arrive in the world to come, Mat 10:30).
23. Christians do not look for a rapture before the GT, we look for the coming of the Lord at the end of the GT (2Pet 3:12).
24. The Bible says that God can not lie. But it just so happens, that God said that, when He declared that the blessed hope is eternal life (Tit 1:2).
25. When Jesus comes back in the clouds for us (the Church), the Bible says that every eye shall see him (Rev 1:7).
26. The reason why God send plagues to Egypt was to show he is so powerful, that he can pour plagues on the wicked while sparing his elect, without having to remove his elect from the planet (Exo 11:7). Jesus is against a doctrine that states that God has to remove his elect to protect his people from his own plagues (John 17:15). We need to pray like Jesus.
27. When God promised to KEEP us FROM the hour of temptation (Rev 3:10; the GT), he did not mean removing us from the planet (John 17:15).
28. Parallels: 7th seal = 7th trumpet = 7th vial (they all come with thunders, lightning, voices, a great earthquake and great hail which are the signs of God coming down to earth as shown in Exo 19:16-19).
29. Parallels 6th seal happens at the end of the 6th trumpet = 6th vial. Note: the 6th trumpet and the 6th vial deal with the Euphrates river and Armageddon, which ends at the 6th seal (Rev 9:13-19; Rev 16:12-16). See also Zep 3:8; Zec 12:3-4, and Luke 21:20-25. It is in the midst of the 6th vial that Jesus said that he will come as a thief (Rev 16:15).
30. The Bible says that the 5th seal is almost at the end of the GT (Rev 6:9-11).
31. The Bible is blatantly clear when it states that the Jews are part of the one body of Christ, the Church (1Cor 12:13; Gal 3:28; Eph 2:14-19; Eph 3:4-6; Col 3:11; 1Cor 10:1-4; Act 13:26; Rom 1:16; Rom 3:1-9,24-30; Rom 4:16; Rom chapters 9,10 & 11; Rom 12:1-5). Concerning the truth that the Jews are part of the church, the Bible says: “Let God be true and everyman a liar” (Rom 3:1-4).
32. Everywhere in Scriptures that God shows the rapture, it is shown after the 6th seal or at the day of wrath (Psalm 18; Isa 13; 1Th 3:13; 1Cor 15:52; 2Th 1:6-8; Mat 24:21-31; Rev 14:14-15)

What you will not find in Scriptures… There are no verses that state:

1. That Daniel’s 70th week is what triggers God’s wrath.
2. That the first 5 seals or the first 6 trumpets are part of God’s wrath.
3. That there will be an invisible coming of Jesus Christ.
4. That Abraham, Jacob, David, Moses, Joshua and Noah are not part of the body of Christ (the Church).
5. That the Holy Spirit is the one that is the restrainer of 2The 2:1-12.
6. That there is a rapture before the great tribulation or before the first seal.
7. That there will be a rapture before the 6th seal or before the 7th trumpet.
8. That all the seals, trumpets and vials will occur within a period of 7 years.
9. That God is more interested in comforting the flesh than building the character of the Church.

Remember, it is a good thing to love his appearing ...

2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

Shalom

[Cyberseeker]

Clever Donkey. Some good hints there.

[Servant89]

Thank you Lord for your WORD, thank you Lord for the Harmony in your word. Thank you Lord for the promise of your return. Amen!

Shalom

[RockSolid]

Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

When Matthew stated in Chapter 24:21,29-31 that the great tribulation is over when the 6th seal is opened, he meant it. It is over. The best way to see the trumpets and vials as inside the Great Tribulation is to place the trumpets and vials in parallel with the seals like this.

1. Matthew 24:29 states that immediately AFTER the great tribulation of Mat 24:21, the 6th seal will be opened (Mat 24:29-31) and then Jesus will come down to resurrect his people that were in heaven and rapture those that will be on earth (Mar 13:27). That means, that when the 6th seal is open (Rev 6:12-17), the GT is over.

Matt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.