Water Baptism

[Sirus]

The reason what we do appears logical to you is because the truth is logical.

Yes the truth is logical, but what you are saying is not. I said seems logical. I did not say it is logical.

Your explanation on the other hand appears illogical and it completely misses the mark.

Really? Answer my question regarding the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. I'm looking forward to it.

[losthorizon]

I

As for the scriptures, it's easier to just read my posts and see all the scriptures posted that explain how "belief" alone saves...

But you have not presented even one verse from the NT that says we are saved by "faith alone" there is no verse that says that. Is it your position that one can be saved without repenting? Think before you answer and consider the words of Jesus...

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ~ Jesus Christ

Are you sure faith alone saves - without repentance?

[losthorizon]

Yes the truth is logical, but what you are saying is not. I said seems logical. I did not say it is logical.

Again, it seems logical because it is logical - the truth remains the truth - the one who believes and is baptized will be saved.

Really? Answer my question regarding the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. I'm looking forward to it.

I will be happy to answer it tomorrow - come back and we can discuss.

[Sirus]

But you have not presented even one verse from the NT that says we are saved by "faith alone" there is no verse that says that. Is it your position that one can be saved without repenting? Think before you answer and consider the words of Jesus...

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ~ Jesus Christ

Are you sure faith alone saves - without repentance?

Ummm.....we are talking about how we receive the remission of sins. Don't try and change subjects.

[Sirus]

Again, it seems logical because it is logical - the truth remains the truth

That's.....
seems logical to the carnal mind
It's not the truth because it is logical to to carnal mind.

[Slug1]

But you have not presented even one verse from the NT that says we are saved by "faith alone" there is no verse that says that. Is it your position that one can be saved without repenting? Think before you answer and consider the words of Jesus...

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ~ Jesus Christ

Are you sure faith alone saves - without repentance?

I never said by faith alone, I said by BELIEF alone. Faith is a gift of that belief.

Why do you keep changing up? Stick to the topic... focus dude... have you read all scriptures pointed out that prove EVERYTHING you keep asking us to prove to you, through NT scripture?

We're not talking about faith as you just changed up too... stick with the belief that scripture says, SAVES. Read all the scriptures please... I think between Sirus and I, there are at least a dozen or more provided and so far, you ignored.

[Sirus]

Titus 3:5 isn't talking about something that is done to us but what Jesus did and received that brings us salvation. It's about God's righteousness, shed blood, mercy seat. faith of Christ, and receiving promise made to Abraham and one seed Christ.

I completely disagree with this.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

[Sirus]

Why was Jesus baptized?

Same as with us. Baptism is a witness/record to others just as Jesus' baptism was a witness/record.

Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Joh 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
Joh 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

[losthorizon]

Ummm.....we are talking about how we receive the remission of sins. Don't try and change subjects.

I have already told you how we receive remission of sins at revealed in Holy Writ – we must believe, repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38) and that is the subject. Belief, repentance and baptism work in unison according to God's plan to save us through the blood of Christ. Were you saved before you repented as Slug suggests?

[losthorizon]

That's.....
seems logical to the carnal mind
It's not the truth because it is logical to to carnal mind.

Are you suggesting that God's revelation that one must believe, repent and be baptized comes from the "carnal mind" or does it in reality come form the mind of God. You may be confused. Again, the reason why what I have presented appears logical to you is because God's truth is logical. You stumble because you think your illogical notion trumps God's word - but it doesn't.

Then Peter said to them [that believed], "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 2:38 NKJV)

The logical truth remains before your eyes my friend - believe, repent and be baptized - then your sins will be remitted and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It can't be any clearer - can it? Your notion continues to contradict God's word - why?

[losthorizon]

I never said by faith alone, I said by BELIEF alone.

Again – you say you are saved by “belief alone” but Jesus clearly says…”I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” The question that continues to beg - were you saved before you repented of your sins or are belief and resentence required before one will be saved? Focus dude – focus… Your notion continues to contradict the word of God. Why?

I think between Sirus and I, there are at least a dozen or more provided and so far, you ignored.

As mentioned more that once - the truth found in your dozen or more scriptures do not contradict the truth taught in the scriptures that require belief, repentance and baptism before one's sins are remitted. Are you still under the delusion that God's word contradicts itself? You can't ignore Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 just because those passages cannot fit into dogma. Deal with the full counsel of God's word - your failure to do that keeps you in error.

[Slug1]

I have already told you how we receive remission of sins at revealed in Holy Writ – we must believe, repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38) and that is the subject. Belief, repentance and baptism work in unison according to God's plan to save us through the blood of Christ. Were you saved before you repented as Slug suggests?

Belief first, leads to being saved, we are then sealed at that moment of belief and acceptance of Jesus as "my/our" Savior. The Holy Spirit begins His ministry in us and points out what to repent as we grow closer and mature in our relationship. This process can be done at that moment of surrendering to our Savior or it is a process over the lifetime of the Christian.

Just last month the Holy Spirit led me back to a moment of my childhood when I was sinful and I repented of this sin. The authority this sin held over me is now no more and I am not bound anymore and I am free. Over my years of growning closer to God, He's led me to purge parts of my life that I enjoyed but was not aligned with His holiness and righteousness. Music, movies, friends, parties, thoughts, use of words, all have been placed upon me in conviction and in obedience I removed these elements from my life.

Sure, I repented (repent and believe) upon accepting Christ of what "I THOUGHT" were my sins and over time, God pointed out MANY more.

Anyway... we all know what is right or wrong based on carnal understanding on the day we accept Christ but once saved by that acceptance of Him as our Savior, then the Holy Spirit goes to work, part of His ministry in us is to convict and what I thought was sin... was just the tip of the iceberg. There was MUCH MORE SIN in me under the surface within me and over the years, the Holy Spirit has pointed them out, one by one.

It's a race we run... I don't sit at the start line and wait for Jesus... I run and go where He directs me to that finish line so when I step over that finish line I have overcome and endured to that end.

[Slug1]

Again – you say you are saved by “belief alone” but Jesus clearly says…”I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” The question that continues to beg - were you saved before you repented of your sins or are belief and resentence required before one will be saved? Focus dude – focus… Your notion continues to contradict the word of God. Why?


As mentioned more that once - the truth found in your dozen or more scriptures do not contradict the truth taught in the scriptures that require belief, repentance and baptism before one's sins are remitted. Are you still under the delusion that God's word contradicts itself? You can't ignore Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 just because those passages cannot fit into dogma. Deal with the full counsel of God's word - your failure to do that keeps you in error.

You clearly have not addressed all the multitude of scripture presented in this thread. We all have addressed yours. Please address ours and explain how all those scriptures that Jesus spoke and said that believing in Him, saves us... DON'T MEAN we are saved through belief in Him.

Here's only 2 to start with. Sirus linked up all the others in that post you still ignore. So actually, as long as you keep ignoring all those many, many scriptures and only hold onto the one you are wrapped around... we really can't move forward to God's truth. You seem to only trust your doctrines truth and ignore any and all scripture that points out... you're doctrine is wrong.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

OK... 3 scriptures, not 2... so can you address these and explain them away to us and show us in your own words how these words from Jesus DOESN'T mean that belief in Him saves us???

You say to us to deal with the FULL counsel of God's Word... well, based on all we have said and the little you say... we are the ones in the context of the full counsel of God's Word and you are not.

Thank you and God Bless you dude!!

[Sirus]

I have already told you how we receive remission of sins at revealed in Holy Writ – we must believe, repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38) and that is the subject. Belief, repentance and baptism work in unison according to God's plan to save us through the blood of Christ. Were you saved before you repented as Slug suggests?

No, because it's repent/believe not believe, repent.

[Sirus]

Are you suggesting that God's revelation that one must believe, repent and be baptized comes from the "carnal mind"

Yes. Repent/believe - be baptized - is God's order revealed in Scripture.