Water Baptism

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Vote, Discuss, etc.

Baptismal Regeneration: Baptism as the salvific act itself. Ranges from infant baptism to a point similar to Essential Baptism.

Essential Baptism (Exclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Exclusive means faith-belief MUST specifically include baptism. Believer's Baptism is invalid and salvation is not in effect.)

Essential Baptism (Inclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Inclusive means faith-belief SHOULD specifically ibclude baptism, but Believer's Baptism is valid and salvation is in effect.)

Believer's Baptism: Baptism that follows repentance and belief unto salvation by outward demonstration of affiliation and obedience AFTER receiving salvation by grace through faith alone. Not salvific or an essential third component of salvation.

[Bandit]

I would have to go with "believer's baptism". Baptism in the New Testament is kind of like circumcision in the Old: it marked out who a (male) believer was, but it in itself does not save. (Just as many circumcised failed to enter into the promised land because of their unbelief, many baptized will also fail to enter in because of their unbelief.)

[Diggindeeper]

I take my stand with Bandit! (Post#2)


Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Lady e]

After reading about Cornelius household I now believe it is important but not essential for salvation.

[Sirus]

Believer's Baptism
but I certainly wouldn't have put "as the first act of obedience".

[losthorizon]

Vote, Discuss, etc.

Baptismal Regeneration: Baptism as the salvific act itself. Ranges from infant baptism to a point similar to Essential Baptism.

Essential Baptism (Exclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Exclusive means faith-belief MUST specifically include baptism. Believer's Baptism is invalid and salvation is not in effect.)

Essential Baptism (Inclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Inclusive means faith-belief SHOULD specifically ibclude baptism, but Believer's Baptism is valid and salvation is in effect.)

Believer's Baptism: Baptism that follows repentance and belief unto salvation as the first act of obedience AFTER receiving salvation by grace through faith alone. Not salvific or an essential third component of salvation.

Unable to vote due to faulty nomenclature. “Believer baptism” is “essential” to the gospel of grace per Jesus and the inspired writers of the NT - and in a real sense believer baptism “now saves us” per Peter (1 Pet 3:21). Also you appear to misunderstand the meaning of "Baptismal Regeneration".

According to Peter baptism saves us as an expression of faith, i.e., baptism is an appeal to God by faith that points the believer to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You may want to correct your definitions if you are really trying to present an accurate poll.

…eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(1 Peter 3:20-21)

[nzyr]

I just believe we should do it. I can't explain the whys or the hows. And maybe that's why it's called faith.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

[notuptome]

Philip clearly sets the matter to rest. Acts 9:36-37 ..."if thou believest thou mayest". Not must but may receive water baptism. The emphisis is on belief not water baptism. "If thou believest with all thine heart".

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[John146]

Vote, Discuss, etc.

Baptismal Regeneration: Baptism as the salvific act itself. Ranges from infant baptism to a point similar to Essential Baptism.

Essential Baptism (Exclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Exclusive means faith-belief MUST specifically include baptism. Believer's Baptism is invalid and salvation is not in effect.)

Essential Baptism (Inclusive): Baptism as the third essential component of salvation, with repentance and belief. (Inclusive means faith-belief SHOULD specifically ibclude baptism, but Believer's Baptism is valid and salvation is in effect.)

Believer's Baptism: Baptism that follows repentance and belief unto salvation as the first act of obedience AFTER receiving salvation by grace through faith alone. Not salvific or an essential third component of salvation.

I went with Believer's Baptism because I strongly believe that Cornelius and his Gentile household were saved upon receiving the Holy Spirit, which occurred before they were water baptized.

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Verse 47 shows that they had already received the Holy Spirit, which I see as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that occurs upon regeneration/salvation and then Peter asks if anyone could forbid them from then being water baptized.

[Firefighter]

Knock it off with the personal attacks.

[VerticalReality]

I just believe we should do it. I can't explain the whys or the hows. And maybe that's why it's called faith.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

I believe it really should be as simple as this. I don't care about the why's or how's or what if's. What I do care about is the fact that by faith we should be baptized. I think many in the church today go overboard with the "baptism is not necessary for salvation" stance. The reason being is because I think folks jump off a cliff with this view and almost speak of baptism like it isn't even really important anymore, and you really only need to do it if you get around to it.

The word of God gives clear indication that baptism was more important and should be approached with more seriousness than that.

[crawfish]

I see a lot of people pointing to a specific occurrence of baptism to glean an opinion. Is this really valid exegesis? Let's look at the instances in Acts and see if a conclusion can be drawn more holistically:

1. Acts 2:38
Context: Speaking to Jews in Jerusalem; specifically those who had desired the death of Jesus.
Conversion: told to believe, repent and be baptized to wash away their sins.

2. Acts 22:16
Context: Paul speaking of his own conversion
Conversion: Told be be baptized to wash away his sins.

3. Acts 8:9-25
Context: Salvation comes to the Samaritans for the first time
Conversion: The Samaritans were baptized. They did not receive the Holy Spirit until some time later, when Peter and John laid their hands upon them.

4. Acts 8:26-39
Context: A eunuch receives salvation on the road from Philip.
Conversion: Believes and is immediately baptized.

5. Acts 10:44-48
Context: Gentiles become Christians (in a major public fashion) for the first time.
Conversion: Holy Spirit comes to the Gentiles on hearing the message. Peter then commands them to be baptized.

6. Acts 19:4-7
Context: Disciples of John are re-baptized into Christ.
Conversion: Had been baptized for repentance and told to believe in what would come. Were baptized into Christ. Holy Spirit comes soon afterward with the laying of hands by Paul.

That's not all the instances, but should be good enough for our purposes here.

Note 1 and 2; in each case, we are told that they were baptized for the forgiveness of their sins. Note also that, in each case, the audience were Jews who had previously supported the execution of Jesus.

Note 3 and 4: Each instance here is the conversion of someone who is ceremonially unclean; neither Samaritans nor Eunuchs were allowed in the temple.

Note 3: Why did the Samaritans have to wait for the Holy Spirit? The story of Simon the Sorcerer is a big clue; "magic" at this time was an attempt to control the uncontrollable; love potions to make someone love you, healing potions to heal disease, etc. Simon seems to think he can control God as well, by bribing the Apostles into giving him power for money. When he is told "pray and maybe God will forgive you", it is no doubt phrased that way to make Simon know that there is no way God can be controlled into doing anything. The Samaritans needed to know that God is in control and they must submit their will to him, and that will comes through the Jews they disliked.

Note 4: We don't hear specifically that they Holy Spirit came upon the Eunuch at any time in this story.

Note 5: The wording in this account is very interesting. The Holy Spirit came upon the Gentiles upon hearing; note that it does not say "upon believing". The Christians around them were astonished to see this! Obviously, there was still doubt upon them that Gentiles could be saved. The coming of the Holy Spirit took away any such doubts from them, and the Gentiles could then be added to their number without complaint or reservation.

Note 6: This group had undergone a ceremonial baptism, but underwent a second because the first had been done under other circumstances. Paul lays hands afterward to show the "proof" that Jesus was the one to come they had been told about, and that Paul was a true messenger.

I'm not going to come to any conclusions just yet. What does everybody think?

[notuptome]

The apostles and disciples received the Holy Spirit from Christ in the upper room. John 20:22. The apostles and disciples were spiritually quickened in preparation for their filling with power at pentacost.

No evidence that the apostles and disciples were water baptised after receiving the Holy Spirit or that the Lord instructed them to receive water baptism before pentacost. Did Peter receive water baptism at pentacost? Did Peter receive water baptism after John 20:22 but before pentacost? If as some suppose, water baptism is necessary for salvation you would think that the apostles and disciples would have been the first to partake.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[crawfish]

The apostles and disciples received the Holy Spirit from Christ in the upper room. John 20:22. The apostles and disciples were spiritually quickened in preparation for their filling with power at pentacost.

No evidence that the apostles and disciples were water baptised after receiving the Holy Spirit or that the Lord instructed them to receive water baptism before pentacost. Did Peter receive water baptism at pentacost? Did Peter receive water baptism after John 20:22 but before pentacost? If as some suppose, water baptism is necessary for salvation you would think that the apostles and disciples would have been the first to partake.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Now that is a good argument. Thank you for adding to the conversation.

[Amos_with_goats]

I am so very thankful for free will.

(no, I am not trying to take this thread THERE.. )

I am thankful the Lord has given us a 'thing' we can do to show
the world a physical representation of the spiritual decision we have
made.

The practical reality of the matter is that WHATEVER your belief about
the REASON for baptism, we know the Lord has told us to do it.

I personally will not baptize someone unless they understand the choice,
and make it of their own free will. I find it very sad that so many children
(and adults) are baptized simply because it is what other (men) expect them
to do.. or their parents tell them to.

Much like celebrating the Lord's supper... it is not a ritual, and making it just
a part of the 'trappings' of churchanity can take so very much away from such a wonderful thing.