What would you do in my shoes?

[ThyWordIsTruth]

I attend a Baptist church. However, I disagree with several of its doctrines. I do not believe in eternal security, and I do not agree with the Calvinist interpretation of election. However, I am content to hold my peace and keep my beliefs to myself. I have no intention of going around trying to convert anyone to my beliefs.

I was honest with the pastor and told him honestly what my beliefs were. I did not want to be accepted as a member without being honest with him. After our talk, he's been preaching a lot about eternal security and election from the pulpit. This makes me really uncomfortable and really discourages me.

The church is not really full blown 5-point Calvinist. They don't believe in Limited Atonement, and neither do they believe that God controls everyone like puppets. They believe that man has free will, but admit that they don't understand how it works when (to them) Scripture says that God chose (but they forgot the "in him" part). So I can accept this version of "confused Calvinism" or "inconsistent Calvinism".

I have several reasons for staying. First, the people there are amazing. I have to say that they are the first genuine Christians that I've known all my life despite having been in a religious environment for many years. Godly, loving, sacrificial, non-judgemental, humble, easy to get along with and they're there for each other during tough times. The leaders have assured me that if I decided to stay, I can rest assured that no one is going to look at me funny or treat me any differently for my beliefs. They would still love me the same. And I have been led to the perspective that the pastor is preaching these things because of his concern for me (i.e. he wants me to believe the "truth" and don't want me to be misled), and I guess I will have to attribute what he's doing to insensitivity or perhaps a lack of emotional intelligence in this area. Like Scripture says, knowing that he's doing it out of a motive of love covers over the wrongs.

The second reason I'm staying is because I can't find a single good alternative in my entire country. The most numerous Arminian churches are Methodist churches (Pentecostal churches are out), and there are many aspects of their practices here in this country that I disagree with, including installing women to pastoral roles, preaching being shallow and not word-based, using worldly methods to bring in the numbers, etc. I've visited a few other non-denominational churches but I just didn't learn anything there because the preaching was shallow, or because they did several things which I disagreed with.

My problem: I feel extremely uncomfortable sitting in the service when these things are being preached to me week after week. I am fully convinced of the views I hold, and I can harmonize all of Scripture without contradiction where these issues are concerned, and although I am always willing to change my mind when I can be shown that I am wrong, I am confident that I have arrived at my view with clear conscience and honesty, having searched the Scriptures. I really feel discouraged when these things get preached to me week after week. It's really getting me down.

What would you do in my case? Any advice?

[Theophilus]

Frankly, if I were me, I'd have to go further afield, if none of the churches in my current sphere meet my needs. I love the folks where I attend, too...but I couldn't sit in a congregation when I disagreed with so many points of their doctrine.

[Slug1]

Seems to me the pastor's purpose is either 2 things.. 1) Bind you with this church's false understanding of scripture and their doctrine or 2) drive you away... he may feel you will become a threat to him and his church and their doctrine when you begin to stand up and point out Biblical truth that counters their doctrine to others in the church. You said you don't want to do that but at the same time you are uncomfortable. Is this feeling of not being comforted a conviction to point out Biblical truth or is this conviction trying to prevent you from getting bound up?

Your choice, get bound up or run to freedom to another church that preaches Biblical TRUTH and allows Jesus to freely guide and move... full truth, not only the scriptures that caters to their doctrine but preaches only God's truth as led by His Spirit. Or stand up for Christ and the truth in the Bible?

[-SEEKING-]

Me personally I can live with those 2 non essentials. But that's me. If the fellowship is good, and you feel the church is reaching the community and doing what the Lord called us to do, I'd personally overlook it. The only thing that sort of makes me a little cautious is the fact that it seems that the only messages being preached are to "try" to get you to understand. Firstly because I don't think any one person should be the focus of a preaching, and secondly you can't abandon the teaching of the word to the flock just to try and convince someone else of what it is you believe. So I'm kind of torn here. Perhaps you should heed the previous advice.

[Gilligan]

You might try a Holiness church based on Wesleyan theology and Arminianism.

[Theophilus]

You might try a Holiness church based on Wesleyan theology and Arminianism.

Well...I can certainly amen that!

[-SEEKING-]

You might try a Holiness church based on Wesleyan theology and Arminianism.

What's a holiness church? Never heard of that before.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

You might try a Holiness church based on Wesleyan theology and Arminianism.

Are you referring to Nazarene churches? There are none where I am. I am quite limited for choice. There are also no Freewill baptists because I guess that would be my first choice.

There are methodists, brethren, pentecostals, anglican (episcopalian), baptists, evangelical free church, non-denominational churches, presbyterians, bible-presbyterians...

Many of the churches with Arminian theology install women in pastoral roles, and I don't agree with that and I feel it's not something I can live with. Also, the better ones which preach from the word also believe in eternal security, so that's a bummer for me.

[Amos_with_goats]

.....What would you do in my shoes?.....

Well, I would probably take them off. I have very large feet, so I would probably be pretty uncomfortable.




WRT your situation, I would pray. Pray, and fast if necessary to know the Lord's will for you in this. There is simply nothing in our experience like being obedient. I will say that may even be the case for believers in bodies with greater differences then the ones you cite. I would give examples, but I do not want to de-rail the thread.

I understand your struggle, I serve in a body who's non-denomination denomination holds positions I simply do not see in scripture. I teach the Word, and am careful in ministering not to avoid the truth, or to revel in the contradiction. Think of the doctrine of the weaker brother.... “love will cover a multitude of sins.”.


If it is the Lord's will for you to be in the assembly you are in, then serve with all your heart, mind, and strength. Remember that no matter what assembly you find, there will always be some friction if we are truly loving one another.

One of the great things about being in Christ, is having His Spirit within us. Seek the Lord on this, listen to His voice and He will not mislead you. He will give you the peace you seek.

Blessings, and thank you for the privilege of being part of the discussion.

[moonglow]

I am a member of a Southern Baptist church that also believes in OSAS which I don't agree with. They don't though believe in the Calvinist interpretation of election though..or even in a confused version of it. Thank goodness or I would not have stayed at all. I have not told the pastor I don't believe in the OSAS position...I have no reason too. I image everyone has some points they don't agree with in a church too. I know this cause I have heard it from many members in different churches over the years. And personally I think that is a good thing because it shows the members doing their own studying and thinking for themselves rather then just believing everything a pastor says. Not putting down pastors by any means its just they are imperfect human beings too.

I don't think I could stay in your church because I simply cannot stand the election idea at all..where some are chosen to be saved and some ignored so they have no chance at all...that is just ghastly to me.

You could not go until he is done with this series on election..then start attending the services again...that might be an option.

Years ago I was attending a church where I thought the pastor was way way too strict about alot of things but I loved the members there. I was a baby Christian really though too. As time went by and I grew in my understanding of the bible and in my faith his sermons started sounded better... Finally when he retired I was just as choked up as everyone else about him leaving. But at that time I didn't know much about all these different doctrines either.

I agree with the others..pray about this...see what the Lord wants you to do.

God bless

[mom_of_four]

What is the Calvinist interpretation of election? Never heard of that?

[ThyWordIsTruth]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll take the advice and continue praying and staying at this church and see how things turn out.

mom_of_four, I can't PM you and don't want to derail the thread, so I'd prefer to explain over PM than here. See if you can send me a PM.