Wouldn't it be nice...

[ProjectPeter]

Certainly all debate is not wrong and is good and necessary. Acts 15 is a good example. We see to where Paul and Barnabas had serious disagreement. Jesus himself sometimes went looking for a way to offend those around him, like when he saw what was in the religious heart about healing on the sabbath. Yet, there were times when Jesus avoided debate like when he asked "Is John from God or men?"

Yet, if we look to the heart of the verse in Titus, it is about avoiding certain kinds of strife. Then, IMO, he gives an interesting verse to go with it.


Titus 3:10-11
10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
NASU

There are people who just cause division. They will cause strife. They will cause debate. These people should be marked and separated from.

I suppose I could say more. Lord knows I have felt the convicting hand of the Holy Spirit when my debate got out of hand and been prompted by him to engage in debate after I had ignored it for a time. One thing that I have often wondered about is how the internet and places like BibleForums fits within the kingdom. Though that is another whole discussion, I am somewhat confused because I see a clear time and place for debate within a church. (In Acts 15, agreement was actually reached after debate.) I also see a place for it in evangelism as Paul did at Mars Hill.

But with Bibleforums, it's not a church. Thus some of the rules that I see in place to govern churches may not apply here. And there is no real governing body where we are all submitted to it in the "real world". Our submission to the authority begins when we enter the forum and ends when we leave it. Such things make it harder for me to have clear thoughts and where some lines should be drawn.

If we were a Pentecostal forum then we'd have rules to reflect such. If we were a Baptist, Reformed, or whatever brand of forum... we would have rules that reflect such. We are none of those alone but instead a place where all of those can come and do a multitude of things... Bible discussion is naturally one of those. Just as naturally... with the varying doctrinal beliefs... there will be doctrinal differences and debates on those differences.

I'll say this too and say so knowing what I am talking about. If we were just a forum where it was all bless you my brother... there are very few folks that would even attend the place... most the people in this very thread would find it very boring, unlearning, and frankly... we'd have been closed down a long time ago for a lack of interest. You can take that to the bank too... it's a very simple fact.

[notuptome]

I was going to bring up Acts 15 but I see you beat me to it. There's nothing wrong with debate in and of itself. The problem comes in when people stop being respectful of each other. The Bible is full of theology and, sadly, there's not a lot in the Bible that we all agree on, so the potential for debate is there in almost any discussion of the Bible, it seems. I'm pretty sure that people would find a way to even debate over Psalm 100.

If we are driven to a deeper study of Gods word who is the beneficiary?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[ProjectPeter]

I don't think it's your fault for feeling the way you do, but this board has to be more than about just your feelings. There are a large number of us who enjoy the debate and who strive to keep it from getting ugly (although that often fails).

Dani H has the best solution above: simply say in the OP that the thread is not about debate but is a discussion. If a debate pops up, ask them to stop, and if they don't report it to a mod. As an OP you have control over how the thread goes. Avoid the debate posts if you don't want to read them.

Of course, I understand your dilemma. There was a poster on here who would often make a "sermon" post to state a point of view, and indicate that he did not want that opinion debated in the thread. His wishes were granted, even when he posted on controversial topics, although I do admit most of the time there were no responses at all.

That is exactly why we don't allow folks that as a rule. If folks understand the desire to discuss without debate.. many will give it their best shot. But we're not going to allow folks in BC etc. to just start a thread so they can preach a message without refute.

Let me add too... not towards what you said but just in general to all. If a person tries to do that in the other sections discarding the intent of the specific forum but just want a place to say what they want without anyone being able to debate it... we'll move that thread to BC or whatever section is applicable.

[ProjectPeter]

I was going to bring up Acts 15 but I see you beat me to it. There's nothing wrong with debate in and of itself. The problem comes in when people stop being respectful of each other. The Bible is full of theology and, sadly, there's not a lot in the Bible that we all agree on, so the potential for debate is there in almost any discussion of the Bible, it seems. I'm pretty sure that people would find a way to even debate over Psalm 100.

I've said it a lot in my years here now and time again. There is a vast difference between contending for the faith (that we are to do) and being contentious in our faith (that is sinful). A lot of times... the latter seems to come out. When that happens... it is dealt with.

[Brother Mark]

That is exactly why we don't allow folks that as a rule. If folks understand the desire to discuss without debate.. many will give it their best shot. But we're not going to allow folks in BC etc. to just start a thread so they can preach a message without refute.

Let me add too... not towards what you said but just in general to all. If a person tries to do that in the other sections discarding the intent of the specific forum but just want a place to say what they want without anyone being able to debate it... we'll move that thread to BC or whatever section is applicable.

No doubt. Mods should never give up their authority! Man, what a mess this place would become. For me, I really don't mind disagreement or debate. But I can get firey on some things and I don't like that in me or in others when it is fleshly. Of course, I think you've read enough of my posts to know when I am getting out of line too. Posting in other forums allows me to post something that might cause heated debates, but the forum rules prevent it. Because of that, some decent discussion can happen instead of debating out of what sometimes can seem like anger.

Dude, I know the job you guys have. Most of us that have done it didn't like doing it and I am sure that many who still do it don't like. So for those of you that keep doing, a hearty thanks.

[ProDeo]

If we were a Pentecostal forum then we'd have rules to reflect such. If we were a Baptist, Reformed, or whatever brand of forum... we would have rules that reflect such. We are none of those alone but instead a place where all of those can come and do a multitude of things... Bible discussion is naturally one of those. Just as naturally... with the varying doctrinal beliefs... there will be doctrinal differences and debates on those differences.

Split BC into:

. Bible Chat (discussion)
. Bible Chat (debate)

or create a new one called "Christian Doctrines".

Or something like that.

[Brother Mark]

I've said it a lot in my years here now and time again. There is a vast difference between contending for the faith (that we are to do) and being contentious in our faith (that is sinful). A lot of times... the latter seems to come out. When that happens... it is dealt with.

This is exactly where the line should be drawn. Jesus said some very harsh things both to his followers and to the pharisees. But he also said some very nice things. Most of us end up in one ditch or the other (contention or refusing to contend) when it comes to our walk. Balance generally takes a while to achieve. It is no accident that one could not be a chief priest until he was 30 years old. It takes a long time to properly work the cross into someone.

[ProjectPeter]

No doubt. Mods should never give up their authority! Man, what a mess this place would become. For me, I really don't mind disagreement or debate. But I can get firey on some things and I don't like that in me or in others when it is fleshly. Of course, I think you've read enough of my posts to know when I am getting out of line too. Posting in other forums allows me to post something that might cause heated debates, but the forum rules prevent it. Because of that, some decent discussion can happen instead of debating out of what sometimes can seem like anger.

Dude, I know the job you guys have. Most of us that have done it didn't like doing it and I am sure that many who still do it don't like. So for those of you that keep doing, a hearty thanks.

Posting in other forums is cool and works as long as it is done for the intent of say Growing in Christ. If it isn't... mod's simply move the thread into the appropriate section!

Here is concept that seems to elude folks too! Not a single person has to respond to a post that they think is coming from someone being simply contentious! Folks do and those usually generate another ten or more post back and forth and then folks are all mad and all! Kick in the fanny is though... one can't get into those type of contest if they refuse to engage in it. Works great and works every time!

[Brother Mark]

Posting in other forums is cool and works as long as it is done for the intent of say Growing in Christ. If it isn't... mod's simply move the thread into the appropriate section!

Is there a biblical discussion that can't start in GiC? I would think every biblical discussion would be relevant in that forum. Or the fellowship forum... we can all fellowship around just about any topic. Right? Though I have seen mods move threads before discussions ever started so I know there are rules.

Here is concept that seems to allude folks too! Not a single person has to respond to a post that they think is coming from someone being simply contentious! Folks do and those usually generate another ten or more post back and forth and then folks are all mad and all! Kick in the fanny is though... one can't get into those type of contest if they refuse to engage in it. Works great and works every time!

Yep. I have used that one very well. You've seen me do it recently too. Just waited and let others do the dirty work. Till the very end when I was given permission to "pile on".

[ProjectPeter]

Spit BC into:

. Bible Chat (discussion)
. Bible Chat (debate)

or create a new one called "Christian Doctrines".

Or something like that.

Nah. Let me tell you why. Anyone that is strong enough in the Scripture to teach (and that's what the majority of the threads on BC are) something or preach something or take a stand on something... that SHOULD BE a person that can function with the self-control enough to not get bunched up because someone says WRONG PROJECTPETER!!! I've been called a wolf, heretic, false teacher, and words that the filter doesn't allow. Been called it on the open board often enough and in private more times than I can recall. It's ugly... it's silly. Some folks are ugly and silly. I generally ignore the remarks until it gets to a point where I must stop it for the sake of a thread. I'll let things go when said to me that I wouldn't allow said to you... but the point is that it happens. Folks that are biblical solid enough to argue, debate, or teach something should understand something such as the requirement to control our selves. If they can't... they probably shouldn't argue theology so hard... they still have some basics to learn.

[ProjectPeter]

Is there a biblical discussion that can't start in GiC? I would think every biblical discussion would be relevant in that forum. Or the fellowship forum... we can all fellowship around just about any topic. Right? Though I have seen mods move threads before discussions ever started so I know there are rules.



Yep. I have used that one very well. You've seen me do it recently too. Just waited and let others do the dirty work. Till the very end when I was given permission to "pile on".

As long as it is geared towards the new and weaker brother and their growth in Christ yes. If it is to simply discuss something to avoid refute... then that's not cool. Not in there because it detracts from the intent of the forum.

[Brother Mark]

As long as it is geared towards the new and weaker brother and their growth in Christ yes. If it is to simply discuss something to avoid refute... then that's not cool. Not in there because it detracts from the intent of the forum.

There is room for refutation in GiC isn't there? Surely you see a difference between hard nosed debate and discussion... If there is no forum where people can discuss without it leading to debate, then that is a glaring hole in the bible forums program. Though perhaps debate and discussion might need to be defined.

[crawfish]

That is exactly why we don't allow folks that as a rule. If folks understand the desire to discuss without debate.. many will give it their best shot. But we're not going to allow folks in BC etc. to just start a thread so they can preach a message without refute.

Let me add too... not towards what you said but just in general to all. If a person tries to do that in the other sections discarding the intent of the specific forum but just want a place to say what they want without anyone being able to debate it... we'll move that thread to BC or whatever section is applicable.

Sorry to exceed my authority here.

[divaD]

Only a fool, in the metaphorical sense, would argue or debate against what God has declared to be true and eternal.

Already, ironically enough, by what you just stated, this is up for debate. Not against what God has declared to be true and eternal, but against what you say God has declared to be true and eternal. It's pretty easy to see why we have debates in here. You give the impression that your understanding of the Scriptures are not debatable, because to argue with you, is to really argue with what God has declared to be true and eternal, according to your understanding. Don't you see the problem?

[ProjectPeter]

There is room for refutation in GiC isn't there? Surely you see a difference between hard nosed debate and discussion... If there is no forum where people can discuss without it leading to debate, then that is a glaring hole in the bible forums program. Though perhaps debate and discussion might need to be defined.

Mark... GiC is what it is. It's for those GROWING... not for the grown to sidestep refuting of what they want to say. There is a wee bit of room for refuting something in there but it is just a wee bit. That isn't what the section is there for.

As to debate... no one is forced to debate. That was my point earlier. If you want to post something and someone wants to enter into a debate on the matter... takes two to have that dance. Don't debate them if you don't want to debate. If you refute them... they refute back... you refute their refute... they refute your refute to their refute... you are debating. No rule saying you have to do that. That's totally up to the individual poster.