What do you mean by "modest" dress for women?. (moved from GIC)

[Frecs]

Very good points, Frecs. I'm sorry that if in my previous post I made it seem as though modesty should only be considered/thought about on Sunday morning when getting dressed for church. That was not my intention. I was just using that as an example because, if I remember correctly, that was the example used in the OP. Hope that helps clarify my thought process.

Yours in Him,

Benjamin

You were fine....I was responding to Rabbiknife's question.

[thethirdtuttle]

I will give two examples of how not to dress for church...don't wear a G-string ladies where if you have to bend over and care for a small child its exposed to everyone.

This happened one time in church with a lady visiting and had several young children and bent over in her seat to do something with one of the children and a man was sitting right behind her. He appeared to do a very good job on keeping his eyes on the pastor and I applaud him for that. I was behind him and my mouth dropped open when I saw quite a lot of her G-string.

...I would tell you my thoughts on G-strings but this is a 'G' rated board... Lets just say, keep them covered up please!! thanks.

God bless

moonglow:

Not to derail this thread, but I have a somewhat similar story to share about Christian women wearing thong/G-string underwear. Don't worry, though. It is G-rated. I was a student at a small, private, Christian liberal arts college off and on from 1998 until 2005, when I was allowed to walk in the graduation ceremony. 5 years later, I still don't have my degree, but that is a whole other story. Anyways, when I first started going there, they held chapel in the sanctuary of a nearby church, but then at some point while I was there, for whatever reason, the church in question decided to stop allowing the school to use their sanctuary for chapels. So, chapel was switched to the gym, with the students sitting on the bleachers and the speakers standing on the basketball court floor. One time, after I had sat down somewhere in the middle of the bleachers, a young lady walked down to the bottom of the bleachers and sat down with her friends. As she did so, her pants rode down a little bit and I could quite clearly see the back of a pair of thong panties sitting much higher on her waist than her pants were. I quickly looked away, but, to be honest, the thoughts that came into my head, if I remember correctly, were not lustful but confused. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Why would any self-respecting Christian young lady wear something like that?" After all, as part of being accepted to attend that particular college, you had to sign a form which stated that you were a Christian. And, we were in chapel, getting ready to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ, and she was wearing a THONG?! That is absolutely mind-boggling to me. Of course, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, it is up to the more wise/mature/discerning Christian women to teach the younger ones about dressing modestly and such, especially if the younger ones are unaware of what kinds of messages those sorts of clothing items send to the opposite sex. Which this particular young woman apparently was. Hopefully, she has learned that lesson since then. God bless, and have a great day in the Lord!

Yours in Him,

Benjamin

[RabbiKnife]

What about a thong underwear is ungodly or immodest if it is not seen?

Is it impossible to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ while wearing a thong?

[amazzin]

What about a thong underwear is ungodly or immodest if it is not seen?

Is it impossible to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ while wearing a thong?

..... As long as they keep the dental floss in the bathroom we're good !!

[moonglow]

"In like manner also the women are to "adorn [kosmeō] themselves in modest [kosmios] apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

Why did Paul mention the braided hair, gold, pearls, and costly garments? When I read this, I see his mention of them as him explaining what he is NOT talking about - in other words, his clarification that he is not talking about the physical garments, but the spiritual.

Even if he were talking about a woman keeping her body covered up, why would his contrast of that be expensive and flashy clothes? Wouldn't the contrast be revealing clothes that exposed the body?

And because the first part of that passage leading up to that verse is talking about holiness and spiritual matters, I have to interpret that this is what women are supposed to be clothed in - holiness, sobriety, shamefacedness, godliness, and good works.

This is not a hill on which I choose to die. It's just how I read and understand the verse in context.



I don't see these verses at all as dictating how a woman should dress herself.

I do see these verses as being huge umbrellas that could include, in application, a woman dressing decently because others are weak. It could also include a man speaking with honor to his wife because she may be fragile or a child being obedient to his parents and influencing his peers to do the same or many other matters.

The verse in question, about the "modest apparel" could also be an umbrella to include, in application of the shamefacedness, sobriety, godliness, good works, and holiness - a decent style of dressing. Also under that same umbrella could be speaking with kindness and respect to a husband, being an example for younger women to follow, and all sorts of things.



I believe that. Included in that is how we watch how we speak, behave, think, dress, and represent Christ.

All I was saying was that I do not believe the verse in question is a literal command of what kind of clothes women are to wear. It's much deeper than that.

I think Paul is talking about both actually...not to be caught up in the world of flash in our dress and that the spiritual is what is important....but honestly jayne a woman dressed in a bikini in church is not thinking about clothing herself in the spiritual things or holiness...she is not thinking at all if you ask me. Of course all of Jesus and Paul's teachings were to pulls believers away from worldly thoughts and concerns to spiritual thoughts and concerns...a woman concerned with the spiritual wouldn't possibly even consider wearing some of those things Paul mentioned which were the common dress by the Roman women in those days which is why he mentioned those things specifically. Very specifically...that wasn't just some general ideas he was using.

I think knowing the time and culture when Paul wrote this is helpful in fully understanding it. Women were dressing exactly like he described in that verse...which is why he says not to dress that way:
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/vi...ti&chapter=002
he stola, catastola, girdle, , though simple in themselves, were often highly ornamented both with gold and precious stones; and, both among the Grecian and Roman women, the hair was often crisped and curled in the most variegated and complex manner. To this the apostle alludes when he says: Not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly raiment. The costly raiment might refer to the materials out of which the raiment was made, and to the workmanship; the gold and pearls, to the ornaments on the raiment.

With shame-facedness or modesty, This would lead them to avoid every thing unbecoming or meretricious in the mode or fashion of their dress.

With sobriety, Moderation would lead them to avoid all unnecessary expense. They might follow the custom or costume of the country as to the dress itself, for nothing was ever more becoming than the Grecian stola, catastola, and zona; but they must not imitate the extravagance of those who, through impurity or littleness of mind, decked themselves merely to attract the eye of admiration, or set in lying action the tongue of flattery. Woman has been invidiously defined: An animal fond of dress. How long will they permit themselves to be thus degraded?

Those beautiful lines of Homer, in which he speaks of the death of Euphorbus, who was slain by Menelaus, show how anciently the Grecians plaited and adorned their hair:-
The extravagance to which the Grecian and Asiatic women went in their ornaments might well be a reason for the apostle's command.

We know Paul was constantly battling worldly influences on the New Christian..especially those raised in these pagan cultures where literally anything goes. It was difficult to get them to living in the flesh and turn their minds to the spiritual. He had to address all sorts of things on that.

So its both literal and spiritual. Our outward appearances, just as our actions, speech, lifestyle reflect our hearts....anyone wanting to be like Christ isn't ...cannot dress like a hooker on main street...(back then prostitutes shaved their heads which is why its forbidden in the NT) Just in case anyone wanted to know that.. So now if you wanted to shave your head it wouldn't be considered a shame...but dressing like one and standing on a corner it would probably be assumed you were one by today's standards. No one would assume that lady was a Christian by any means so her dress does have a direct affect on her witness.

So while we need to consider the culture then ...and their dress, hair styles, etc...are different then today's, it doesn't mean these passages don't apply but need to be used by today's standards. Now putting in fake pearls in our hair isn't going to be a big deal like it was in Paul's day...or getting a perm in our hair or fixing it up because now it can be done by ourselves at home or very cheaply where as back in his day it was very costly and done so the ladies could draw attention to themselves. Now its common and everyone just fits in with each other. I don't think in most cases our hair style would be much of an issue..its more with how we dress and girls have no sense of dignity or self respect anymore and think using their bodies in sexual ways is all they have to offer. Its incredibly sad.

They would have no clue how to put on 'holiness' at all. Not in any sense. I blame the media for alot of this actually. They show all the movie stars and singers and famous people as dressing in very immodest ways so these girls think that is how they should dress if they want to be liked...or loved.

God bless

[Frecs]

While you won't find any such in my clothing items, I have to ask two things:

1. How did you know she was wearing a thong?
2. Why is that a problem as long as they are covered up? Were they showing out the top of her jeans?

Frankly, if I were to have a drawer full of sexy undies, what business is that of anyone?

I remember attending a bridal shower “lingerie” party for a Christian lady. Everyone had purchased conservative little silk PJs. Then, she got to my gift. Let’s just say that it was red, lace, and not much of it. Why would I give her such a thing? Because SHE WAS GETTING MARRIED. In the privacy of their bedroom, both she and her husband would enjoy it. That did not change the fact that they were both Godly Christians who worshipped God both on Sunday at church and throughout their week.

[RabbiKnife]

Ah, so we are back to modesty being defined, at least in part, by

1. cultural setting
2. context/location
3. audience

[Jeanne D]

..... As long as they keep the dental floss in the bathroom we're good !!

that's what I've always called it too! I don't know how anyone can wear those things???

Jeanne

[moonglow]

What about a thong underwear is ungodly or immodest if it is not seen?

Is it impossible to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ while wearing a thong?

Still can't respond due to G rating board...sorry! boy I sure wish I could!!

I know...you put one on then sing praises to the Lord...maybe that will give you an idea...

thethirdtuttle

Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
I will give two examples of how not to dress for church...don't wear a G-string ladies where if you have to bend over and care for a small child its exposed to everyone.

This happened one time in church with a lady visiting and had several young children and bent over in her seat to do something with one of the children and a man was sitting right behind her. He appeared to do a very good job on keeping his eyes on the pastor and I applaud him for that. I was behind him and my mouth dropped open when I saw quite a lot of her G-string.

...I would tell you my thoughts on G-strings but this is a 'G' rated board... Lets just say, keep them covered up please!! thanks.

God bless

moonglow:

Not to derail this thread, but I have a somewhat similar story to share about Christian women wearing thong/G-string underwear. Don't worry, though. It is G-rated. I was a student at a small, private, Christian liberal arts college off and on from 1998 until 2005, when I was allowed to walk in the graduation ceremony. 5 years later, I still don't have my degree, but that is a whole other story. Anyways, when I first started going there, they held chapel in the sanctuary of a nearby church, but then at some point while I was there, for whatever reason, the church in question decided to stop allowing the school to use their sanctuary for chapels. So, chapel was switched to the gym, with the students sitting on the bleachers and the speakers standing on the basketball court floor. One time, after I had sat down somewhere in the middle of the bleachers, a young lady walked down to the bottom of the bleachers and sat down with her friends. As she did so, her pants rode down a little bit and I could quite clearly see the back of a pair of thong panties sitting much higher on her waist than her pants were. I quickly looked away, but, to be honest, the thoughts that came into my head, if I remember correctly, were not lustful but confused. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Why would any self-respecting Christian young lady wear something like that?" After all, as part of being accepted to attend that particular college, you had to sign a form which stated that you were a Christian. And, we were in chapel, getting ready to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ, and she was wearing a THONG?! That is absolutely mind-boggling to me. Of course, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, it is up to the more wise/mature/discerning Christian women to teach the younger ones about dressing modestly and such, especially if the younger ones are unaware of what kinds of messages those sorts of clothing items send to the opposite sex. Which this particular young woman apparently was. Hopefully, she has learned that lesson since then. God bless, and have a great day in the Lord!

Yours in Him,

Benjamin

Wow...well...supposedly from what I pick up from the media seeing a girls G-string is suppose to be sexy ...though I honestly don't understand how it could be...gag.

Now I have heard of ladies in the past on this board say they wear them because they are comfortable and that is the only reason they wear them. I cannot begin to image how having a string...er..

can be comfortable...ick.

[karenoka27]

What about a thong underwear is ungodly or immodest if it is not seen?

Is it impossible to sing praise and worship songs to our loving God and merciful Savior Jesus Christ while wearing a thong?

If you look in the mirror before you leave and ask the Lord if what you are wearing is OK with Him.
1 Corinthians 10:31-"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

[RabbiKnife]

That doesn't exactly answer my question.

[karenoka27]

Why doesn't it? If you are going to church to worship God, and you ask Him if you have dressed appropriately, knowing that He knows the motives and intents of your heart, then you know whether it is ok or not to go to church dressed in a certain manner...seen by others or not.

[RabbiKnife]

Why would God care what my underwear looks like, or if I was wearing any at all? I understand that he prescribed specific underwear for the priests in the OT, but that was because they were doing a lot of climbing up and down steps to wash stuff and burn stuff and God didn't want the folks on the front row getting the extra matinee attraction.

What does that have to do with now?

[karenoka27]

Oh dear...I can see you are not a woman. Your only concern is briefs or boxers.
If a woman wears certain things it makes her feel certain ways. I don't know too many women who don't feel some sort of sexy in a thong.
(I see this is where you got your new thread from in Solomon's Porch)...

[RabbiKnife]

Oh dear...I can see you are not a woman. Your only concern is briefs or boxers.
If a woman wears certain things it makes her feel certain ways. I don't know too many women who don't feel some sort of sexy in a thong.
(I see this is where you got your new thread from in Solomon's Porch)...

And exactly why are you looking at threads in Solomon's Porch? Get back in the kitchen where you belong, woman....



In the first post I said something like "Let's see how long it takes one of the ladies to say something about this thread"