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Thread: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

  1. #16
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    I'm optimistic, but I have no idea why they decided to split this book, in particular. The first third or so of the novel can be accurately summed up as "Harry, Ron, and Hermione search for things, but don't find them. Interpersonal drama ensues." I maintain that the structural device of a school year at Hogwarts was basically the only thing that gave shape to Rowling's first six books, and without that ready-made architecture she produced a book that is, to put it kindly, loosely structured. I still like it, though, and the reviews give me high hopes for it visually--and was Half-Blood Prince gorgeous, or what? Bruno Delbonnel isn't shooting this one, but, still.

    In response to the question(s) above, not everything in life is about religious studies, in particular. I won't argue for the Harry Potter books specifically because it's useless to set a specific book/series against the entire field of theology. But there is a good argument for literature (or narrative art) in general: reading it and thinking about it engages the parts of the mind that respond to human creativity and the need to make patterns and narratives out of our experiences; it helps us think more deeply and more widely about the world and about what it means to be human (to use a tired cliche that is nevertheless true). And books in particular make us think about language--our primary form of communication--in ways that nothing else does: Why use this word and not that word? What are the general stylistic tendencies of this or that book or passage or author? What does the style add to our understanding of the characters and themes, or vice versa?

    And yes, I know Harry Potter books aren't Milton. But "popular" books are constructed in exactly the same way as "literary" works (sometimes, they're both: see Homer or Dickens), and as the HP books are ultimately children's novels it's best not to demand that they be Milton (or whatever). They do have, to me, literary strengths: the world-building is extremely inventive and impressive, they are highly entertaining (successful entertainment is not easy to create, and is a triumph of construction as much as anything else is) and occasionally have real emotional heft, as in the elegiac, haunted Half-Blood Prince. I loved them as a child/teenager, and still enjoy them.

    And no, I don't expect that Paul went to the Coliseum. But that's not a valid comparison--you haven't shown that reading popular novels and watching violent death are equivalent in any way. The more proper comparison would be, well, reading. And Paul did that; it's common knowledge that his writings contain multiple references to the (secular!) Greek poets of his day. In addition, the Bible itself is a literary work (calm down, everyone; that doesn't preclude it being historically accurate, when it means to be); indeed, it is one of the very bases of the Western literary tradition (even among nonbelievers), and no one's knowledge of literature is anywhere near complete without it. So if what we believe that God spoke to us through a work of literature, literature itself is clearly not an idle pastime.

  2. #17

    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post
    If we can't agree whether it is sinful to pay money to view fabricated divination, necromancy, and the like; can we agree that these things have no value to us spiritually and are in fact a waste of time? What will help me grow in the knowledge of the Lord God, two hours of Harry Potter or two hours of Bible study? What will aid me in my witness for Christ? What will allow me to work out my salvation with fear and trembling? What will aid me in knowing what God’s perfect will is?
    Is not “entertainment” as it has come to be described simply just a distraction? Something that limits our time in prayer, in study and in seeing to the needs of others? Is seeking out things to dull our minds or focusing them on “fantasy” wasteful in view that we will all soon die? Will our Harry Potter book collections and knowledge gleaned from study of this seven plus book series be something that will pass through fire or will we have to answer to God as to why we were wasteful of the short time we were given?
    Do you suppose that Paul took time out when in Rome to view a gladiatorial match or the goings-on in the Circus Maximus? I doubt he concerned himself with worldly things very often, as he was fixed on his goal: Christ.
    So I take it then that you never watch TV or movies, read any novels that aren't about Christian issues (so no fiction), play no video games, don't do stuff for fun on the internet (oh, whoops, I guess you do do that one), play a board game or a sprot for fun, etc., because those things:
    have no value to us spiritually and are in fact a waste of time? What will help me grow in the knowledge of the Lord God, two hours of (insert item from list) or two hours of Bible study? What will aid me in my witness for Christ? What will allow me to work out my salvation with fear and trembling? What will aid me in knowing what God’s perfect will is?
    Is not “entertainment” as it has come to be described simply just a distraction? Something that limits our time in prayer, in study and in seeing to the needs of others? Is seeking out things to dull our minds or focusing them on [these things] wasteful in view that we will all soon die? Will our collections and knowledge gleaned from study of [these things] be something that will pass through fire or will we have to answer to God as to why we were wasteful of the short time we were given?
    If you are going to go down this path why do you not just join a monastery and not work as it is of no use because it isn't increasing your knowledge of the Bible?

  3. #18
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by GitRDunn View Post
    So I take it then that you never watch TV or movies, read any novels that aren't about Christian issues (so no fiction), play no video games, don't do stuff for fun on the internet (oh, whoops, I guess you do do that one), play a board game or a sprot for fun, etc., because those things:

    If you are going to go down this path why do you not just join a monastery and not work as it is of no use because it isn't increasing your knowledge of the Bible?
    Firstly, the reason that I go to work is so that I am able to give to those in need. Like many of us here, the Army ensured that I am quite able to survive alone in various wilderness areas, but Jesus was a people person and so it is our duty. You are correct in all your assumptions except in one aspect: I WILL play a game of Scrabble from time-to-time or some other game of that type because it CAN have spiritual value as in it can get us talking to others. I also like the old version of Bible Trivia that my mother has at her house. Sometimes the needs of others can be met just by spending time with them. Have you ever had a relative in a nursing room or hopital bed?
    As far as my internet habits, there are those on this forum who are aware of ALL my online activity (here and facebook). The internet is a wonderful means of communicating to others about our Lord.
    I don't want you to think that I have perfected some sort of lofty self-rightousness because that simply is not true. I am weak, stupid and frail and it is because I understand this that I must find strength in Him who is not. I don't speak poorly of these activities simply to do so, but in the hopes that possibly someone would be encouraged to forsake these things and spend more time with the Lord and learning more about Him. It is in Him that we will be complete and in Him that we can experience joy not found in a novel or movie. I want you to have that joy! Once you kick that other stuff to the curb, you don't miss it for very long.
    Psalm 19:14
    May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

  4. #19
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    I was wondering if this thread would turn into a 'is it ok to read fantasy' debate. Since it has, i will say this before i continue to discuss the books themselves: i see nothing wrong with fantasy and i will continue to read and look at it if i find it interesting or entertaining. If you do not like it, neither you nor your children have to read. And you need not warn me or try to convince me because i am not intending to use magic in the near or distant future nor have i been tempted to do so nor do i consider it to be a waste of time.
    "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."


    in all your ways acknowledge Him, and he will make your paths straight.


    Many are the afflictions of the righteous; But Jehovah delivereth him out of them all.

  5. #20
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post
    If we can't agree whether it is sinful to pay money to view fabricated divination, necromancy, and the like; can we agree that these things have no value to us spiritually and are in fact a waste of time? What will help me grow in the knowledge of the Lord God, two hours of Harry Potter or two hours of Bible study? What will aid me in my witness for Christ? What will allow me to work out my salvation with fear and trembling? What will aid me in knowing what God’s perfect will is?
    Is not “entertainment” as it has come to be described simply just a distraction? Something that limits our time in prayer, in study and in seeing to the needs of others? Is seeking out things to dull our minds or focusing them on “fantasy” wasteful in view that we will all soon die? Will our Harry Potter book collections and knowledge gleaned from study of this seven plus book series be something that will pass through fire or will we have to answer to God as to why we were wasteful of the short time we were given?
    Do you suppose that Paul took time out when in Rome to view a gladiatorial match or the goings-on in the Circus Maximus? I doubt he concerned himself with worldly things very often, as he was fixed on his goal: Christ.
    I will be more than happy to answer to God for the time I spend reading or viewing Harry Potter, baseball, The Cooking Channel, or Mike Mulligan and the Steam Shovel. And eating. And sleeping. And talking with friends. And cooking dinner with my wife. And changing the oil. And blowing leaves. And driving to the store. And typing on Bible Forums.

  6. #21
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Besides, I read the Bible in Harry Potter....

    Dumbledore's family tombstone quotes Matthew 6 ("Where your treasure is, your heart will be also"), and the Potter family tombstone quotes 1 Cor 15:26 "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death", (I Corinthians 15:26).

    So, I got my Bible verses in for the week.

  7. #22

    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Never really got into Harry Potter or LOTR................but give me a Star Wars marathon and I'm there!!

  8. #23
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Tension View Post
    Never really got into Harry Potter or LOTR................but give me a Star Wars marathon and I'm there!!
    It’s funny you mention that...I was accused of “Star Wars type” theology last time I mentioned being led by the Holy Spirit.
    Psalm 19:14
    May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

  9. #24

    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    If it ain't Lord of the Rings, I'm not a fan
    LotR is a great real-time movie. But I don't have 3 hours to watch hobbits run across fields

    I wanted to go see the movie, but here at school it is kind of a pain to do so. I saw it was only 1 part, so I imagining that the second part will be released in the summer, which I will be able to see (and hopefully part 1 before that too)

  10. #25
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Ew i hate harry potter...just too boring for me..i love narnia though....

  11. #26
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post
    It’s funny you mention that...I was accused of “Star Wars type” theology last time I mentioned being led by the Holy Spirit.
    Haha a blast from the past!
    Psalm 19:14
    May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

  12. #27
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post
    It’s funny you mention that...I was accused of “Star Wars type” theology last time I mentioned being led by the Holy Spirit.
    You have to put the light saber down when you witness....
    E ku'u lesu, ku'u Ho'ola
    'O'oe ke ala,
    A me ka 'oia'i'o
    A me Keolamauloa
    'Amene


    My Jesus, My savior. You are the way, the truth and the everlasting life. Amen

  13. #28
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish View Post
    You have to put the light saber down when you witness....


    Repent and be baptized!
    Psalm 19:14
    May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

  14. #29
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    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_no_one View Post


    Repent and be baptized!


    "I find your lack of faith disturbing"
    E ku'u lesu, ku'u Ho'ola
    'O'oe ke ala,
    A me ka 'oia'i'o
    A me Keolamauloa
    'Amene


    My Jesus, My savior. You are the way, the truth and the everlasting life. Amen

  15. #30

    Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish View Post


    "I find your lack of faith disturbing"
    Here you go. I got you the proper image for this quote.



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