The Old Serpent cast down to earth.

[percho]

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

O Lucifer, son of the morning! Do you think he may have been one that shouted for joy?

Jude 1:6 1st part And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. Isa. 14:13,14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain,(tohuw) he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else. 2 peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form,(tohuw) and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Someone else will have to take it from here.

[Beckrl]

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

O Lucifer, son of the morning! Do you think he may have been one that shouted for joy?




Jude 1:6 1st part And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. Isa. 14:13,14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain,(tohuw) he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else. 2 peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form,(tohuw) and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Someone else will have to take it from here.

What is you application to all these passages? As I stated before Satan the old serpent was in the garden, but he also had excess to heaven per the passages of Job to accuse the brethren of their sins. It would be until Christ came that Satan would be casted out of heaven per the passages of the woman and child in Revelation chapter 12 which depicts the nation of Israel (woman) and Jesus the Messiah (child).

My question was if Satan that old serpent is bound at this time of being casted down? We read in Revelation of Satan described as the old serpent and he is casted into the bottomless pit, and shut up (chained up) and set a seal upon him , that he should no more deceive the nations and this is the beginning of the thousand years.

The passages of Luke 10:18-19 that you refered to would give a indication that Satan and his devils had became subject to the power and authority of Christ's name. So if the seventy was given power over the devils that they became subject unto them by the name of Christ. It would seem that Satan had become in some way bounded and chained up to no more deceive. We may also refer to John 12:28-29 in which Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God coming unto you. That would be like entering into a strong man's house and taking, spoiling his good, but first one must bind the stong man. If Jesus is alluding to Satan as the strong man and all indication would point to that, Satan is then bounded by the coming of the kingdom.

[percho]

I believe Satan's effort to take the throne of heaven took place before Adam was created. From the above scriptures it looks to me as if the earth was at one time created to be inhabited by the angels. Pride over came Satan and he left his first estate and he ascended to heaven but was cast back to the earth which Jesus said he saw. Sin always causes destruction and darkness. This sin of the angels was before Adam and is the reason for the earth being without form and void in verse 2 of Genesis.

I believe the binding of Satan takes place after Jesus returns to rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is after the calling out of the nations a people for his name pictured by the feast of the first fruits of the Spirit, Pentecost. The return of Jesus the feast of trumpets. The binding of Satan in the day of atonement.

[Beckrl]

I believe Satan's effort to take the throne of heaven took place before Adam was created. From the above scriptures it looks to me as if the earth was at one time created to be inhabited by the angels. Pride over came Satan and he left his first estate and he ascended to heaven but was cast back to the earth which Jesus said he saw.

Again what is you application that Jesus said he "see" Strong's G2334 - theōreō Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Taken into account the timing of his comments concerning Satan, it was after the seventy came back with joy that even the devils were now subject unto them. To give them the power...and over all the power of the enemy. Is Jesus saying that Satan was casted down to heaven at the beginning of creation and that He looked upon him fall? Are should we understand that Jesus was indicating to these that Satan was then casted down by the enpowering of his disciples. The same as when Jesus told those Pharisees that if by the Spirit Jesus had casted out devils then the kingdom of God had come unto them.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

If the kingdom of God had come unto them the Pharisees, Sinners (the strong man's house) Jesus said but first one had to bind the stong man (Satan) so to spoil (take away) his goods. The imagery here is that Satan is being bounded and casted down to earth as decribed by John in Revelation 12.

I believe the binding of Satan takes place after Jesus returns to rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is after the calling out of the nations a people for his name pictured by the feast of the first fruits of the Spirit, Pentecost. The return of Jesus the feast of trumpets. The binding of Satan in the day of atonement.

I agree although I see that time is at Jesus first advent.

[percho]

Again what is you application that Jesus said he "see" Strong's G2334 - theōreō Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Taken into account the timing of his comments concerning Satan, it was after the seventy came back with joy that even the devils were now subject unto them. To give them the power...and over all the power of the enemy. Is Jesus saying that Satan was casted down to heaven at the beginning of creation and that He looked upon him fall? Are should we understand that Jesus was indicating to these that Satan was then casted down by the enpowering of his disciples. The same as when Jesus told those Pharisees that if by the Spirit Jesus had casted out devils then the kingdom of God had come unto them.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

If the kingdom of God had come unto them the Pharisees, Sinners (the strong man's house) Jesus said but first one had to bind the stong man (Satan) so to spoil (take away) his goods. The imagery here is that Satan is being bounded and casted down to earth as decribed by John in Revelation 12.



I agree although I see that time is at Jesus first advent.

I understand that you do. At some point in the eternity of time you and I will be able to stand face to face and one of us will be able to say I'm sorry I was wrong about that. Presently I am not prepared to do that and I don't believe you are either. However it will have to take place. When will that time be? Will there be an epic event that preceeds one of us saying I'm sorry?

[DurbanDude]

I've alway heard it told that Satan, the Devil had been cast down to earth before Adam and Eve for he was in the garden with them. So my question would be at what time was Satan casted down to earth?

In Genesis 3:1 we fine the description of the 'serpent' which deceived Eve. This description is again used in Revelation 12 depicted the woman and child which the 'dragon, old serpent, called the Devil and Satan would go after to destory them.

I always meditate on these things a lot, and try to keep all scriptures in mind when coming to a conclusion, this is what I came up with:

In ages past Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. He was cast to earth, but not right onto the earth as a living being, satan was cast to the spiritual "heavenlies" that surround earth. In this region he has access to both earth and heaven, and yet not full access to either. Thus he can appear and influence on earth, and can also accuse us directly before God in heaven.

Scripture is clear that during the current church age, our fight is against the powers and principalities in this heavenly region where Satan currently is. There are more than one NT scripture that indicate that this is where our enemy currently is.

Looking at Rev 12, it is by the word of our testimony that the saints overcome Satan. I believe this is when the gospel has been succesfully preached to all nations that Satan will lose his authority in this heavenly region. He is literally cast to earth for a short period of wrath on earth. (Rev 12)

At the second coming Satan is cast down to the bottomless pit for 1000 years. (Rev 19/20)

At the end of the millenium Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20)

Jesus himself seems to contradict this when he sends out the disciples to preach in His name, and Jesus sees Satan falling at that time. I believe Jesus was seeing the future fall of Satan prophetically and was relating this to the disciples being the first preachers in his name, which would ultimately result in Satan's fall.

[Beckrl]

I understand that you do. At some point in the eternity of time you and I will be able to stand face to face and one of us will be able to say I'm sorry I was wrong about that. Presently I am not prepared to do that and I don't believe you are either. However it will have to take place. When will that time be? Will there be an epic event that preceeds one of us saying I'm sorry?

I'm sorry we don't agree, there I said it!

[divaD]

I always meditate on these things a lot, and try to keep all scriptures in mind when coming to a conclusion, this is what I came up with:

In ages past Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. He was cast to earth, but not right onto the earth as a living being, satan was cast to the spiritual "heavenlies" that surround earth. In this region he has access to both earth and heaven, and yet not full access to either. Thus he can appear and influence on earth, and can also accuse us directly before God in heaven.

When you say ages past, are you referring to before creation? If so, there wouldn't have even been an earth yet, would there? I for one know no place in Scriptures where it ever speaks of satan falling prior to Genesis ch 3. Do you know of any Scriptures that would precede the fall in the garden?

[Beckrl]

I always meditate on these things a lot, and try to keep all scriptures in mind when coming to a conclusion, this is what I came up with:

In ages past Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. He was cast to earth, but not right onto the earth as a living being, satan was cast to the spiritual "heavenlies" that surround earth. In this region he has access to both earth and heaven, and yet not full access to either. Thus he can appear and influence on earth, and can also accuse us directly before God in heaven.

Scripture is clear that during the current church age, our fight is against the powers and principalities in this heavenly region where Satan currently is. There are more than one NT scripture that indicate that this is where our enemy currently is.

Looking at Rev 12, it is by the word of our testimony that the saints overcome Satan. I believe this is when the gospel has been succesfully preached to all nations that Satan will lose his authority in this heavenly region. He is literally cast to earth for a short period of wrath on earth. (Rev 12)

First of all this 'heavenly place' or high places would that be the same region that Christ set us?

Eph.2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

So how is this to be understood? Are we physically raise to sit together with our brothers in Christ in these heavenly places. Are should we understand that as a spiritual concept as the reconcilication of both Jews and Gentiles. The concept of the 'spirit of the air' is the same as how Jesus discribed those born again of the Spirit. This only tells us 'HOW' the spirits work, but not where they work, for they work in the hearts of men whether to do good or evil. It is this that we war against and not flesh and blood men, but the spirit with in them.


John 3:8"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

So in context to high places 'heavenly places' related to; 'against powers, against the rulers of the darkness[unbelief] of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [places of authority]. Of those men that would have power and authority over them to not turn and fight against them which is over you [flesh and blood] but rather fight the good fight of faith having the full armour of God. To know it's not the man, but the spirit of darkness that we fight in this world.


On the another note Satan would have to deceive the nations [Israel] before he would be casted down (Rev.12:9 & Rev.20:3) Truly this isn't at the time of the garden, but rather after the nations of Israel in whom he deceived and those whom he didn't he accused before God.

When you say ages past, are you referring to before creation? If so, there wouldn't have even been an earth yet, would there? I for one know no place in Scriptures where it ever speaks of satan falling prior to Genesis ch 3. Do you know of any Scriptures that would precede the fall in the garden?

That would again point to the time Jesus said he looked and saw Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

[divaD]

That would again point to the time Jesus said he looked and saw Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Since Scripture interprets Scripture, where are the Scriptures pointing to when Jesus said that? Where are the Scriptures that show satan as lightning falling from heaven?

[RogerW]

I've alway heard it told that Satan, the Devil had been cast down to earth before Adam and Eve for he was in the garden with them. So my question would be at what time was Satan casted down to earth?

Hi Beck,

I've heard this doctrine also! But the problem...it is mere speculation, why assume Satan was cast out of heaven at the creation simply because he was in the garden with A&E?

There are verses of Scripture that indicate Satan was cast down at the first advent of Christ. Jesus tells us the time had come that the Son of man should be glorified (Jo 12:23). And that it was for this very hour that He had come (Jo 12:27). Knowing this He was troubled, even desiring that the Father save Him from this hour, yet Christ desired the Father's name be glorified in this. "Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." The people heard the voice, and thought an angel had spoken to Him. "Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."

Christ was preparing to depart from this world, and tells us this is when the prince of this world will be judged (cast out). When Christ departs He would send the Holy Spirit, Who would reprove the world of judgment "because the prince of this world is judged" (Jo 16:7-11).

Then we read that it was for the purpose of judging the prince of this world (Satan/the devil) that Christ became a man, to deliver His own from the bondage of death..."Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Heb 2:14-15).

The following verse tells us that the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. We do not read that he was an angel of God, who fell from grace and then cast out of heaven. It is because the devil is a sinner from the beginning that the Son of God came to destroy his works, and to save His people from their sins.

1Jo*3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

We also learn the devil was a murderer and liar from the beginning. Not that he was once a good angel of God, who fell. From the very beginning he is the devil, a murderer and liar.

Joh*8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Finally we are told there was a war in heaven between the messengers of Michael and the messengers of Satan after the child, born of the woman was caught up to God and His throne. Michael and his messengers prevailed and cast the great dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him. (Rev 12)

So it seems very clear to me that Satan was cast out of heaven after the cross. He wasn't cast out because he was once good and became bad. He is and always was the serpent, whom God says from the beginning was more subtil (cunning, crafty, murderer and liar) than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. After Christ ascended to the Father, Satan was no longer permitted to stand before God bringing reviling and accusation against believers, because it was the power and authority, the absolute victory over sin and death by His cross that he was forever cast out of heaven, never to falsely accuse (like Job) the people of God again.

There's no doubt that Satan the old serpent was there before the woman and child but what caused him to be casted out of heaven down to earth?

The victorious life, death and resurrection of Christ.

It would seem after Christ was caught up to heaven Satan then is casted out of heaven to no more accuse the brethren of their sins. It is at this time while casted out of heaven down to earth he goes after the woman which remain. She then is given two wings to fly into the wilderness that God has perpared for her for a span of a time, times, and half a time.

This is reference to the whole NC era, from the first advent to the Second Coming.

My main focus would be on when Satan is casted down, but would also like to hear your understanding concerning the woman and who she represents and so forth.

I agree with how you understand the woman. She represents the Old Covenant remnant according to election of grace...the spiritual seed of Abraham; the Israel of God. Her seed is the universal church in the world.

Some other scriptures maybe important to give us a time frame those such as Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 and of source Revelation 20:1-3.

I believe both these passages are referring to messengers of God, not angels, but human messengers, who made marriages with unbelivers. Because they did not keep the rank or chief place as messengers of God; preachers of righteousness, like Noah...God brought judgment against them and cast them into darkness to be reserved for Judgment Day.

[Beckrl]

Since Scripture interprets Scripture, where are the Scriptures pointing to when Jesus said that? Where are the Scriptures that show satan as lightning falling from heaven?

I believe both RogerW and I have given those which show this, but again Isaiah prophesy of Lucifer and those nations with him being cast out 'fallen from heaven' Isaiah 14:12-22. And we fine Jesus prclaiming he beheld Satan fall at the time Jesus give his disciples 'power' over the enemy. Luke 10:18-19. And then a full picture of this is given to us in Revelation 12:1-12. I think scripture is very clear when Satan was casted down.

[RogerW]

I believe both RogerW and I have given those which show this, but again Isaiah prophesy of Lucifer and those nations with him being cast out 'fallen from heaven' Isaiah 14:12-22. And we fine Jesus prclaiming he beheld Satan fall at the time Jesus give his disciples 'power' over the enemy. Luke 10:18-19. And then a full picture of this is given to us in Revelation 12:1-12. I think scripture is very clear when Satan was casted down.

Lucifer is not Satan! Isaiah is speaking a proverb against the king of Babylon, calling him (a human being) Lucifer, son of the morning.

[divaD]

I believe both RogerW and I have given those which show this, but again Isaiah prophesy of Lucifer and those nations with him being cast out 'fallen from heaven' Isaiah 14:12-22. And we fine Jesus prclaiming he beheld Satan fall at the time Jesus give his disciples 'power' over the enemy. Luke 10:18-19. And then a full picture of this is given to us in Revelation 12:1-12. I think scripture is very clear when Satan was casted down.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Let's say this is talking about satan. Notice this in verse 13 of Isaiah 14...in the sides of the north. I think we are to understand that from the perspective of Psalms 48. Personally I believe Isaiah 14 is to be understood in the spiritual sense, and that it's linked to 2 Thess 2 and has nothing to do with before creation.


Psalms 48:1 A Song and Psalm for the sons of Korah.>> Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.
3 God is known in her palaces for a refuge.

[Beckrl]

Lucifer is not Satan! Isaiah is speaking a proverb against the king of Babylon, calling him (a human being) Lucifer, son of the morning.

Roger, I wasn't to sure of my statement concerning 'Lucifer' I beleive you to be correct.