Is there really a 1000 years?

[John146]

Before we can get anywhere in these discussions, we need to clear up one thing first. And then let's work from there.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

According to this verse, when is it that the rest of the dead live again? Simple question. And to make sure we're on the same page, this is a physical resurrection, correct?

After the thousand years are finished. It doesn't say immediately after. It would also be after Satan's little season. Both amils and premils agree on this. And, yes, that is referring to the physical resurrection of the dead.

[John146]

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


Suppose I were to say that satan's little season doesn't occur until 1 million yrs after the 1000 yrs are finished. Afterall, that's definetly after the 1000 yrs are expired. It could be a logical conclusion, right? But would you buy it, just because I said so?
The point is, why would Rev 20 go to such extremes to show what happens when, during, and after the 1000 years, if it really means nothing in relation to the 1000 years itself?

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Here is when we first learn of this 1000 yrs. Verse 2 tells us that satan is bound 1000 years. From that we can deduce the 1000 yrs begins when satan is bound, and that he remains bound this entire time, according to verse 3. Verse 3 also tells us that he must
be loosed a little season once the 1000 yrs expires. That tells us this loosing comes into affect, not 1 million yrs after the 1000 have ended, but immedietly after.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Since we already learned of this 1000 yrs in the prev verses, we then know that the 1000
yrs has a beginning and an end. Here we learn those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, these live at the beginning of the 1000 yrs, and reign with Christ the entire time.

'which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image', etc...this must occur before the 1000 yrs can begin. Because, how can the 1000 yrs begin before anyone doesn't worship the beast, etc? Isn't this what they are being rewarded for at the beginning of the 1000 yrs?

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Keeping with the program, since we know that the binding of satan causes the 1000 yrs to begin, and that those who don't worship the beast, etc, that these begin reigning with Christ at the beginning of the 1000 years, then we can know when this period of time concludes, because this is when the rest of the dead live again, which coincedently, is when satan's little season commences.

Are you saying you believe the rest of the dead are physically resurrected at the same time that Satan's little season begins rather than after Satan's little season? If so that is not what most premils believe. I'm not aware of many at all who believe that. Typically, SDAs believe that and not many others. When are those who are killed by the fire that comes down from heaven (Rev 20:9) resurrected? I guess you don't believe those are among "the rest of the dead"?

[divaD]

Are you saying you believe the rest of the dead are physically resurrected at the same time that Satan's little season begins rather than after Satan's little season? If so that is not what most premils believe. I'm not aware of many at all who believe that. Typically, SDAs believe that and not many others. When are those who are killed by the fire that comes down from heaven (Rev 20:9) resurrected? I guess you don't believe those are among "the rest of the dead"?

If verse 11 is when the rest of the dead live again, then how do the premils explain who these are in verse 9? I mean, apparently they're not dead after the 1000 yrs has ended, yet they're also not those of the 1st resurrection. During the 1000 yrs, the rest of the dead do not live again, that's the point. satan's little season is after the 1000 yrs has expired. I would think that the rest of the dead not living again, that this would no longer apply after the 1000 yrs has ended. Because it is only during the 1000 yrs that they live not again, and not after.


As far as SDAs, I don't know much about them. Never have researched what they believe or don't believe. I've researched JWs to a certain extent tho(because I used to work with a cpl of them), but not SDAs. So if they believe the same, then I guess it's just an unfortunate coincidence. I sure wouldn't want to be one of them, lol. I least know enough to know they're sort of cultish I guess. I put them in the same class as Mormons and JWs. I know very little about the Mormons, but a little about the JWs, because I've researched them a bit.

[divaD]

Here's the point I'm trying to make. if the rest of the dead live not again during the 1000 years, then it only stands to reason, once the 1000 yrs has ended, this would no longer apply. Why? Because if they're still dead, then that means we must still be in the 1000 yrs, because it is only during the 1000 yrs that they do not live.. The same with satan. If satan is still bound, we would still be in the 1000 yrs. If satan is loosed, we're no longer in the 1000 yrs. So why wouldn't the same apply to the rest of the dead?

[Raybob]

David,
You don't seem to understand the "first resurrection". This speaks of the souls that live and reign with Christ. Everyone is born spiritually dead. When one comes to Christ, they are spiritually resurrected. They "come to life" and "live and reign with Christ". The people that don't get born again are the "rest of the dead". This speaks of souls, not physical people in physical bodies.

When Christ returns after Satan's little season, there is a physical resurrection day. The souls that lived and reigned with Christ will be there along with the "rest of the dead" souls. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but for most, it will be too late.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them ... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4)

[ross3421]

David,
You don't seem to understand the "first resurrection". This speaks of the souls that live and reign with Christ. Everyone is born spiritually dead. When one comes to Christ, they are spiritually resurrected. They "come to life" and "live and reign with Christ". The people that don't get born again are the "rest of the dead". This speaks of souls, not physical people in physical bodies.

The first resurrection is a physical resurrection which means first once Christ returns. To say it is spiritual only confuses matters.

The "rest of the dead" are believers in the context of Rev 20. Believers are phisically raised at the first resurrection. This is the first resurrection those rest of the dead believers being raised.

Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Two things to ponder.

1. If the rest of the dead does not speak of believers then where does John mentions those which die in the Lord APART from the martyred in verse 4? Notice this verse speaks ONLY of martyred, where are the "rest" to be resurrected.??

2. There are two groups in heaven, those which live and reign (the martyred verse 4) and those which are preists and reign. Who then are the latter group? It must be the rest of the dead which by John is to mean rest of the dead believers in context which he is speaking.

[divaD]

David,
You don't seem to understand the "first resurrection". This speaks of the souls that live and reign with Christ. Everyone is born spiritually dead. When one comes to Christ, they are spiritually resurrected. They "come to life" and "live and reign with Christ". The people that don't get born again are the "rest of the dead". This speaks of souls, not physical people in physical bodies.

When Christ returns after Satan's little season, there is a physical resurrection day. The souls that lived and reigned with Christ will be there along with the "rest of the dead" souls. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but for most, it will be too late.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them ... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4)

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Raybob, it's not that I'm stubborn so much, it's just that I can't help thinking in a logical manner..well at least logically to me. Like I stated, if these are still dead once satan's little season begins, then logically, we would still be within the 1000 yr period. How could we not be? If the rest of the dead live not again until the 1000 yrs are finished, this can mean only one thing, they were dead during the 1000 yrs. Now if the 1000 yrs have ended, this can only mean one thing, these are no longer dead. But if they're still dead, then obviously, the 1000 yr period hasn't ended. Not one person would argue this same concept, in regards to satan being bound and being loosed. No one would say that the 1000 yrs have ended, but satan is still bound. So why are folks doing the opposite with the rest of the dead? Why are folks saying the 1000 yrs have ended, but the rest of the dead, they're still dead?

[Raybob]

The first resurrection is a physical resurrection which means first once Christ returns. To say it is spiritual only confuses matters...

Talk about confusing. Read the text. John saw the souls, not the bodys in the first resurrection. These souls lived and reigned with Christ. To say John saw the bodies of those resurrected souls would really be confusing the matter.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4)

They were "judged", or more properly, "judgment was given unto them," the day they gave their lives to the Lord.

Two things to ponder.

1. If the rest of the dead does not speak of believers then where does John mentions those which die in the Lord APART from the martyred in verse 4? Notice this verse speaks ONLY of martyred, where are the "rest" to be resurrected.??

John saw the thrones and He saw the souls that sat on them AND he saw those that were martyred, included with those souls reigning with Christ. You missed the word "AND".

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4)

2. There are two groups in heaven, those which live and reign (the martyred verse 4) and those which are preists and reign. Who then are the latter group? It must be the rest of the dead which by John is to mean rest of the dead believers in context which he is speaking.

I don't know what you mean "two groups in heaven". Where did you read that bit about priests?

[Raybob]

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Raybob, it's not that I'm stubborn so much, it's just that I can't help thinking in a logical manner..well at least logically to me. Like I stated, if these are still dead once satan's little season begins, then logically, we would still be within the 1000 yr period. How could we not be? If the rest of the dead live not again until the 1000 yrs are finished, this can mean only one thing, they were dead during the 1000 yrs. Now if the 1000 yrs have ended, this can only mean one thing, these are no longer dead. ...

I take it you didn't read Eric's comment to you. The "rest of the dead" didn't live until after the reign of Christ on earth. It doesn't say they immediately come to life at the end of 1000 years.

[divaD]

Are you saying you believe the rest of the dead are physically resurrected at the same time that Satan's little season begins rather than after Satan's little season? If so that is not what most premils believe. I'm not aware of many at all who believe that. Typically, SDAs believe that and not many others. When are those who are killed by the fire that comes down from heaven (Rev 20:9) resurrected? I guess you don't believe those are among "the rest of the dead"?

I just did some research since last night. There are plenty of premils that believe the rest of the dead are raised when the 1000 yrs is finished..IOW at the end of it. Not one of them were SDA. But I did also find one that was SDA. The SDAs apparently believe this earth is left empty during the 1000 yrs, and this is where satan and his demons get bound to. IOW, they're saying the earth is the abyss. I totally disagree with their conclusions. Their interpretation makes little sense to me, so I'm not even going to bother trying to understand it. I read enough of it it to know I reject it.

The truth is, the typical premil interpretation is beginning to make less sense to me. I can see how they make the connection with Rev 20:11, in regards to a resurrection, since I also make that connection. But this still doesn't explain who all these folks are in the 4 corners of the earth, the ones that come against the beloved city.

[Firstfruits]

David,
You don't seem to understand the "first resurrection". This speaks of the souls that live and reign with Christ. Everyone is born spiritually dead. When one comes to Christ, they are spiritually resurrected. They "come to life" and "live and reign with Christ". The people that don't get born again are the "rest of the dead". This speaks of souls, not physical people in physical bodies.

When Christ returns after Satan's little season, there is a physical resurrection day. The souls that lived and reigned with Christ will be there along with the "rest of the dead" souls. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but for most, it will be too late.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them ... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4)

I believe that those that live and reign with Christ are those that are here when the beast reigns over the earth and have been killed because they refused to take his mark and worship the beast or his image.

Firstfruits

[BroRog]

I just did some research since last night. There are plenty of premils that believe the rest of the dead are raised when the 1000 yrs is finished..IOW at the end of it. Not one of them were SDA. But I did also find one that was SDA. The SDAs apparently believe this earth is left empty during the 1000 yrs, and this is where satan and his demons get bound to. IOW, they're saying the earth is the abyss. I totally disagree with their conclusions. Their interpretation makes little sense to me, so I'm not even going to bother trying to understand it. I read enough of it it to know I reject it.

The truth is, the typical premil interpretation is beginning to make less sense to me. I can see how they make the connection with Rev 20:11, in regards to a resurrection, since I also make that connection. But this still doesn't explain who all these folks are in the 4 corners of the earth, the ones that come against the beloved city.

I like how your mind works. Thanks for your questions, they really get me thinking. Let me propose a scenario and see if it fits the facts. What if the judges of Rev. 20:4 are the resurrected Apostles? (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) These Apostles will rule over the nation of Israel for a thousand years. Jesus calls this time period "the restoration." This time period is not "the next age"; it's still in this age. And everyone, except the Apostles, are still mortal. Jesus rules over Israel as their king, but remains in heaven, ruling through the Apostles. At the end of the Millennium, Satan is released, Gog and Magog come against Israel, and at that time the Lord physically returns to the earth for the last battle. After that, the final judgement. And after that, the next age.

[divaD]

I like how your mind works. Thanks for your questions, they really get me thinking. Let me propose a scenario and see if it fits the facts. What if the judges of Rev. 20:4 are the resurrected Apostles? (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30) These Apostles will rule over the nation of Israel for a thousand years. Jesus calls this time period "the restoration." This time period is not "the next age"; it's still in this age. And everyone, except the Apostles, are still mortal. Jesus rules over Israel as their king, but remains in heaven, ruling through the Apostles. At the end of the Millennium, Satan is released, Gog and Magog come against Israel, and at that time the Lord physically returns to the earth for the last battle. After that, the final judgement. And after that, the next age.

BroRog, help me out here then, since I'm not quite following you. In your proposed view, what is it that causes the 1000 yrs to begin? Where do the rest of the dead fit into this view? When are they raised? Also, how and when do these apostles get resurrected, if Christ hasn't returned yet?

Interesting perspective, nonetheless. Now if I can just understand where you're coming from...

[DocGrace]

DivaD, Rev. 21 and 22 are in the NEW heavens and the NEW earth, after this old dirt has been burned up.

If you use those chapters as proof, where are the streets of gold now on this earth? Where are the 'gates of pearl'? And no seas? This is speaking of the NEW Jerusalem, not the current place with that name here and now....

If this is speaking of New Jerusalem, then explain Rev 22:14-15. Notice what verse 15 says is OUTSIDE THE CITY. Is this what is outside NEW JERUSALEM?

[divaD]

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


This is only my proposal. I have no clue whether anybody on the entire planet would even agree.
But I feel this explains the 1000 yrs. Especially verse 22.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Notice what it states at the end...and after many days shall they be visited.
Notice what it states at the beginning...And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison.

Now notice what it states in verse 21....that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high.

I would think this is in ref to satan and his angels. If so, then according to verse 22, they get shut up in the prison, not destroyed, then later they are visited. This seems to parallel Rev ch 20. At least it seems that way to me. Has anyone else ever made this connection? Or is it just me?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Isaiah 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

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Isaiah 24:22.....and after many days shall they be visited

Revelation 20:3....and after that he must be loosed a little season

Something else to keep in mind here. Isaiah 24:22 states..and shall be shut up in the prison.
This fits satan's situation to a T. We learned satan was shut up in Rev 20:3. We also learn in Revelation 20:7 that it was a prison he was shut up in.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Coincedence?