Is there really a 1000 years?

[John146]

But Eric, he is hidden in the cloud. That's the point. People don't see him in all his glory. Just like Peter and John, only those who are allowed inside the cloud will see him.

Why would He be hidden like that? I'm definitely not following your train of thought here.

[John146]

Didn't the people turn on Him when he came the first time?

Did they see Him in all His glory that time? Once people see Him in all His glory they will all bow down before Him because it will be undeniable at that point that He is Lord. But it will be too late at that point for those who did not put their faith in Him when they had the chance.

[divaD]

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


What puzzles me about the non premil view is why non premils would conclude these are not the same events? And also, since most non premils place Revelation 12:12 after the cross and at Jesus' ascension, then how is it that the devil has great wrath if he's supposed to be bound 1000 yrs(an indefinite period of time) first? It would seem to me, his great wrath would have to coincide with him being loosed. This of course presents a problem for the premil position as well. But I certainly don't see the non premil position solving the problem either.

[John146]

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


What puzzles me about the non premil view is why non premils would conclude these are not the same events?

I would have thought by now you would know why we believe Satan is bound and has been cast out of heaven since we've explained that several times. The devil already has great wrath towards us. It's not as if that wouldn't be the case until he is loosed. But I know why you are asking this. You are wondering why we don't see a connection between "a short time" and "a little season". It's a reasonable question and I've answered it before at least a couple times. I believe that the "short time" from Rev 12:12 is not a literal small amount of time and is instead referring to a limited, but not necessarily literally small, amount of time. In that case it would be a short time, relatively speaking, compared to eternity but a limited amount of time that will eventually run out and come to an end.

The Greek word translated "short" in Rev 12:12 is "oligos" and is not the same Greek word translated as "little" in Rev 20:3, which is "mikros". Let me give you some evidence that the word "oligos" can be used in a way that is speaking relatively rather than literally.

James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

In this verse the Greek word "oligos" is translated as "a little time". Some people live to be over 100. That's not a literal small amount of time, but it is "a little time" relatively speaking.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In this verse the word "oligos" is translated as "few". Now, we know from Rev 7:9 that "a great multitude" of people are saved. But, relatively speaking, compared to the number of people in the world, the number is "few". The word "oligos" is used similarly in other verses such as Matt 7:14, Matt 9:37, Matt 20:16, Matt 22:14, Luke 13:23, Acts 17:4, Acts 17:12, 2 Cor 8:15, 1 Peter 1:6, and 1 Peter 5:10.

And also, since most non premils place Revelation 12:12 after the cross and at Jesus' ascension, then how is it that the devil has great wrath if he's supposed to be bound 1000 yrs(an indefinite period of time) first?

Why would him being bound prevent him from being angry?

It would seem to me, his great wrath would have to coincide with him being loosed.

Why? Hasn't he already been quite angry for a long time since he has already been prowling around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour (1 Peter 5:8) for a long time?

This of course presents a problem for the premil position as well.

It would be a huge problem for premil if the "short time" equated with the "little season" since premil believes the "short time" precedes the return of Christ. I could easily just say "Yeah, those two are the same and that proves amil to be correct" but that obviously wouldn't be honest since I believe Satan was cast out of heaven long ago.

But I certainly don't see the non premil position solving the problem either.

It does if I'm correct that the "short time" is not speaking of a literal small amount of time and is instead referring to a limited, but not necessarily small, amount of time.

[divaD]

I believe that the "short time" from Rev 12:12 is not a literal small amount of time and is instead referring to a limited, but not necessarily literally small, amount of time. In that case it would be a short time, relatively speaking, compared to eternity but a limited amount of time that will eventually run out and come to an end.

oligoV
oligos
ol-ee'-gos


of uncertain affinity; puny (in extent, degree, number, duration or value); especially neuter (adverbially) somewhat:--+ almost, brief(-ly), few, (a) little, + long, a season, short, small, a while.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednameb...RK36.htm#S3641

While they may not be the same Greek words(short and little), I find it ironic what I have in bold.

Why would him being bound prevent him from being angry?

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


When I read that, the sense of being bound is as the sense of being confined behind bars. If one were in prison and they were angry with the outside world, it would be hard for them to do anything while inside prison. Keep in mind, it's the sense these verses are implying, regardless whether the prison is literal or not.

It would be a huge problem for premil if the "short time" equated with the "little season" since premil believes the "short time" precedes the return of Christ. I could easily just say "Yeah, those two are the same and that proves amil to be correct" but that obviously wouldn't be honest since I believe Satan was cast out of heaven long ago.

I undertand your points perfectly. But what if the 2 are linked? How would either view solve the problem?

[Raybob]

...When I read that, the sense of being bound is as the sense of being confined behind bars. If one were in prison and they were angry with the outside world, it would be hard for them to do anything while inside prison. Keep in mind, it's the sense these verses are implying, regardless whether the prison is literal or not..

Satan was only 'bound' from decieving the "gentiles" or the nations. He still roams about seeking whomever he may devour but he is bound from decieving the gentile nations.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(Rev 20:3)

That's clearly not being the same as locked in a prison from the outside world.

Raybob

[John146]

oligoV
oligos
ol-ee'-gos


of uncertain affinity; puny (in extent, degree, number, duration or value); especially neuter (adverbially) somewhat:--+ almost, brief(-ly), few, (a) little, + long, a season, short, small, a while.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednameb...RK36.htm#S3641

While they may not be the same Greek words(short and little), I find it ironic what I have in bold.

What about the verses I showed you where the word is used? Do you have anything to say about those? When a person's life is described by that word in James 4:14 and translated as "a little time" what does that mean to you? Do you agree or disagree with my claim that the word can refer to a limited amount of time or a short amount of time, relatively speaking? Is that not how it's used in James 4:14?

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


When I read that, the sense of being bound is as the sense of being confined behind bars.

But the fact is that it's symbolic language. A dragon being chained up in a prison is only symbolic. Think of the beast with seven heads and ten horns. Whatever your understanding of the beast might be, is the reality of the beast anything near being a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns? Of course not. That would be absurd. So, likewise, we have to be careful about taking the whole dragon chained up in prison thing too literally.

If one were in prison and they were angry with the outside world, it would be hard for them to do anything while inside prison. Keep in mind, it's the sense these verses are implying, regardless whether the prison is literal or not.

But the sense that the rest of scripture gives us is that Jesus defeated Satan on the cross and the gospel of Christ restrains Satan from deceiving the world to the same extent as he did before Christ came and before the gospel spread throughout the world. Can his binding not have something to do with that? I feel certain that it does.

I undertand your points perfectly. But what if the 2 are linked? How would either view solve the problem?

That's not a question I have any desire to answer since I don't see them as being directly related.