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Thread: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

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    Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    In all my time of reading the Bible, it seems that I have come across some really scary and even punishmentous teachings in the book of Matthew. For instance, it seems as though Matthew 5:29 may as well say; "Lust is many thousands of times more serious and many thousands of times bigger a sin than the actual act of adultery, and there is no forgiveness for lust until the part of the body that has ever, even once, caused the person to lust, is destroyed and removed from the body." Also, it seems as though Matthew 5:31-32 teaches that the victim of divorce is to suffer lifelong isolation while the suspect of divorce gets away with it, and that in the event of a divorce, it is always the victim's fault. Also, Matthew 5:38-47 seems to teach that it is wrong to avoid, or stay away from, evil people, and to submit ourselves as sacrifices to enemies so they may murder us in cold blood. And as far as I know it, the reward for avoiding/ignoring/staying away from our enemies and not having anything to do with our enemies is a long and happy life with minimal persecution. Also, and this is the scariest, and in my opinion, the meanest of them all, Matthew 16:24-28 seems to teach that it is wrong and a huge sin to save a person's life, including one's own from deadly peril, basically for one to escape from deadly peril or get someone else out of deadly peril. For instance, if a good samaritan sees someone caught in a roaring and raging flash flood, the samaritan's instincts ought to be to rescue that person from the flood, especially using ropes, cables, life vests, and winches to drag the victim to safety, or at least call 911 and report the victim in peril to the paramedics, not let the victim float away and drown. Or if a person is seen falling off a cruise ship and into the ocean, the captain's first instinct ought to be to stop the ship, lower a lifeboat full of crew, and pluck the fallen passenger from the sea, not leave him behind to drown in the middle of nowhere. Or if someone is caught in a rip current, the person ought to be allowed to do what he/she needs to do to get out of the rip current, such as swimming parallel to the shore until he/she is out of the current and can swim safely back to shore, not just let him/herself get pulled out to sea and drown. Or if you are being assaulted, the right thing, in my opinion, is to get away from the suspect and report the suspect to the police, not just sit there and let the suspect beat you to death.

    Basically, it almost seems as if the book of Matthew says that we are to live a short, depressed, and sad life on Earth, and to spend our entire lives on Earth crying and suffering non stop and endless punishment, not to mention earning absolutely nothing at all from our work and labor, the glass being absolutely bone dry empty at all times, and that life on Earth is to be non stop limbo. I'd say the only thing that could have been worse would have been if Matthew had said; "It is evil and morally wrong for any person to live more than 30 years, and any person who lives upon the Earth for more than 30 years will be automatically condemned and thrown straight into the Lake of Fire upon death, no apologies ever accepted."

    When I think about it, it makes me feel as though Matthew 5:17-20 may as well have said; "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. No. In fact, I have come to expand and add on to the Law, and also to put into permanent effect a zero tolerance policy for all sin. The Lord is still extremely furious with all of you because of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden, and all of you are decendents of Adam and Eve. Because of that, you are all guilty of eating the forbidden fruit, and the Lord orders all of you to get down on your knees, cry, weep, mourn nonstop, suffer nonstop punishment without resistance or escape, and show the Lord that you are sorry for eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Unless your righteousness is equal to that of the Lord, you will never enter Heaven and will be thrown into eternal fire."

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    it seems as though Matthew 5:29 may as well say; "Lust is many thousands of times more serious and many thousands of times bigger a sin than the actual act of adultery, and there is no forgiveness for lust until the part of the body that has ever, even once, caused the person to lust, is destroyed and removed from the body."
    Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.


    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    Also, it seems as though Matthew 5:31-32 teaches that the victim of divorce is to suffer lifelong isolation while the suspect of divorce gets away with it, and that in the event of a divorce, it is always the victim's fault.
    Matthew 5:31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    Also, Matthew 5:38-47 seems to teach that it is wrong to avoid, or stay away from, evil people, and to submit ourselves as sacrifices to enemies so they may murder us in cold blood. And as far as I know it, the reward for avoiding/ignoring/staying away from our enemies and not having anything to do with our enemies is a long and happy life with minimal persecution.

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
    Love for Enemies


    [I]43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?


    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    Also, and this is the scariest, and in my opinion, the meanest of them all, Matthew 16:24-28 seems to teach that it is wrong and a huge sin to save a person's life, including one's own from deadly peril, basically for one to escape from deadly peril or get someone else out of deadly peril. For instance, if a good samaritan sees someone caught in a roaring and raging flash flood, the samaritan's instincts ought to be to rescue that person from the flood, especially using ropes, cables, life vests, and winches to drag the victim to safety, or at least call 911 and report the victim in peril to the paramedics, not let the victim float away and drown. Or if a person is seen falling off a cruise ship and into the ocean, the captain's first instinct ought to be to stop the ship, lower a lifeboat full of crew, and pluck the fallen passenger from the sea, not leave him behind to drown in the middle of nowhere. Or if someone is caught in a rip current, the person ought to be allowed to do what he/she needs to do to get out of the rip current, such as swimming parallel to the shore until he/she is out of the current and can swim safely back to shore, not just let him/herself get pulled out to sea and drown. Or if you are being assaulted, the right thing, in my opinion, is to get away from the suspect and report the suspect to the police, not just sit there and let the suspect beat you to death.
    24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.



    What Bible are you reading?
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    It seems that all bibles teach the exact same stuff, including the King James version. I read a Teen Study bible that I got back in 1994.

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    I just don't see what you are seeing. Do not add to or take away, just read what it says. Where are you getting the things you mentioned in your OP?
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Basically, my OP says what I think that part of the bible is trying to teach us. Not the exact text copied, but the text of what it is trying to say.

    Also, I have actually been dumped twice before, and one of my relationships (back in 2001) did actually get sexual. I am rather concerned, for instance, that Matthew 5:31-32 means that I shall remain single and isolated for the rest of my life because I was dumped by a girlfriend that I got intimate with, and that if I ever technically marry a woman again, that both my new wife and I would be condemned to eternal fire.

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Buster, you do realize that if you lust after a woman, you are equating her to a "thing" or an article whose sole purpose is to gratify your (generic your) lusts, right? That means that you have taken the humanness away and made her nothing but an object for your pleasure.

    What Jesus taught was respect for each and every person. Not respect for only the ruling priests or the king but for every individual who comes across your path. Read that section of Matthew again looking at it from a different viewpoint. Making fun of people is wrong. Period. That's what Jesus was saying.

    The main thing Jesus taught, the commandment to ALL who wish to follow Him is basic - LOVE. Pure and simple. Pure and not so easy without the One who personifies love.

    Thanks for reading -
    V

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    Basically, my OP says what I think that part of the bible is trying to teach us. Not the exact text copied, but the text of what it is trying to say.

    Also, I have actually been dumped twice before, and one of my relationships (back in 2001) did actually get sexual. I am rather concerned, for instance, that Matthew 5:31-32 means that I shall remain single and isolated for the rest of my life because I was dumped by a girlfriend that I got intimate with, and that if I ever technically marry a woman again, that both my new wife and I would be condemned to eternal fire.
    Well, you would be wrong in your thinking then.

    Question...are you a Christian? Where do you get the idea that "sex" = "married"?
    What sin do you believe exists that cannot be forgiven?
    And what effect does a sin in the life of a believer have?

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Quote Originally Posted by buster View Post
    In all my time of reading the Bible, it seems that I have come across some really scary and even punishmentous teachings in the book of Matthew. For instance, it seems as though Matthew 5:29 may as well say; "Lust is many thousands of times more serious and many thousands of times bigger a sin than the actual act of adultery, and there is no forgiveness for lust until the part of the body that has ever, even once, caused the person to lust, is destroyed and removed from the body." Also, it seems as though Matthew 5:31-32 teaches that the victim of divorce is to suffer lifelong isolation while the suspect of divorce gets away with it, and that in the event of a divorce, it is always the victim's fault. Also, Matthew 5:38-47 seems to teach that it is wrong to avoid, or stay away from, evil people, and to submit ourselves as sacrifices to enemies so they may murder us in cold blood. And as far as I know it, the reward for avoiding/ignoring/staying away from our enemies and not having anything to do with our enemies is a long and happy life with minimal persecution. Also, and this is the scariest, and in my opinion, the meanest of them all, Matthew 16:24-28 seems to teach that it is wrong and a huge sin to save a person's life, including one's own from deadly peril, basically for one to escape from deadly peril or get someone else out of deadly peril. For instance, if a good samaritan sees someone caught in a roaring and raging flash flood, the samaritan's instincts ought to be to rescue that person from the flood, especially using ropes, cables, life vests, and winches to drag the victim to safety, or at least call 911 and report the victim in peril to the paramedics, not let the victim float away and drown. Or if a person is seen falling off a cruise ship and into the ocean, the captain's first instinct ought to be to stop the ship, lower a lifeboat full of crew, and pluck the fallen passenger from the sea, not leave him behind to drown in the middle of nowhere. Or if someone is caught in a rip current, the person ought to be allowed to do what he/she needs to do to get out of the rip current, such as swimming parallel to the shore until he/she is out of the current and can swim safely back to shore, not just let him/herself get pulled out to sea and drown. Or if you are being assaulted, the right thing, in my opinion, is to get away from the suspect and report the suspect to the police, not just sit there and let the suspect beat you to death.

    Basically, it almost seems as if the book of Matthew says that we are to live a short, depressed, and sad life on Earth, and to spend our entire lives on Earth crying and suffering non stop and endless punishment, not to mention earning absolutely nothing at all from our work and labor, the glass being absolutely bone dry empty at all times, and that life on Earth is to be non stop limbo. I'd say the only thing that could have been worse would have been if Matthew had said; "It is evil and morally wrong for any person to live more than 30 years, and any person who lives upon the Earth for more than 30 years will be automatically condemned and thrown straight into the Lake of Fire upon death, no apologies ever accepted."

    When I think about it, it makes me feel as though Matthew 5:17-20 may as well have said; "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. No. In fact, I have come to expand and add on to the Law, and also to put into permanent effect a zero tolerance policy for all sin. The Lord is still extremely furious with all of you because of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden, and all of you are decendents of Adam and Eve. Because of that, you are all guilty of eating the forbidden fruit, and the Lord orders all of you to get down on your knees, cry, weep, mourn nonstop, suffer nonstop punishment without resistance or escape, and show the Lord that you are sorry for eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Unless your righteousness is equal to that of the Lord, you will never enter Heaven and will be thrown into eternal fire."
    First of all, listen to the wise comments and questions of RabbiKnife above. ^

    Also... Any time you see Jesus saying "You've heard it said" or something similar, Jesus is specifically addressing and correcting verbal teachings that have been misused and/or misapplied. It's important to understand what those verbal teachings are, and how he's correcting them.

    Pre-marital fornication is not default matrimony. In Matt. 5 (and other passages), Jesus was addressing abuses of verbal and no-fault divorce practices against innocently-accused spouses.

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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    So what about these passages

    Mar 3:28-29 NKJV "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; (29) but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"—

    Joh 3:16-18 NKJV For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Jer 31:34 NKJV No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."


    If all God wanted to do was set us off across a tightrope over the flames of hell, knowing we'd have no chance of making it to the other end but just out for a chuckle to see how far we'd get before we fell, why would he bother sending Jesus to die for us in the first place? Why would Jesus bother dying for our sins if we couldn't be forgiven them anyway?
    24 August 2013 - I've decided to take a break from a number of internet forums, including this one, for my own reasons.
    I expect to be back at some time in the future, although at present don't know when that will be.
    I've been here just a few days shy of six years, and those six years have been greatly blessed.

    ---

    1Jn 4:1 NKJV Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    1Th 5:21-22 NKJV Test all things; hold fast what is good. (22) Abstain from every form of evil.




  10. #10
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    buster either you have a horrible bible translation there or you are grossly reading into what you think those verses mean. That is a very dangerous thing to do. Its better to ask the meaning of something and have help studying it. Attending church and bible studies can help clear things up too. I would recommend using a free online bible commentary too..it can be very enlightening. I wanted to address this part of your posts:

    When I think about it, it makes me feel as though Matthew 5:17-20 may as well have said; "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. No. In fact, I have come to expand and add on to the Law, and also to put into permanent effect a zero tolerance policy for all sin. The Lord is still extremely furious with all of you because of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden, and all of you are decendents of Adam and Eve. Because of that, you are all guilty of eating the forbidden fruit, and the Lord orders all of you to get down on your knees, cry, weep, mourn nonstop, suffer nonstop punishment without resistance or escape, and show the Lord that you are sorry for eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Unless your righteousness is equal to that of the Lord, you will never enter Heaven and will be thrown into eternal fire."

    Er...no..not one word is said in that verse about expanding the laws...in fact Jesus did away with the old Hebrew laws...minus the Ten Commandments:

    here is the actual bible verse...where does He says He is mad at us and expanding the laws?

    Matthew 5:17-20 (New King James Version)

    Christ Fulfills the Law

    17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.


    First you need to consider WHO He is talking too...the Jewish religious leaders who thought being legalistic and following very dot and tittle would save them.. it can't. Only the grace of God can. None of us can work our way to salvation. Anyway here is a bible commentary on that passage:

    David Guzik's Commentaries

    D. The law and true righteousness.

    1. (17-18) Jesus' relation to the law.

    "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

    a. Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets: Jesus here begins a long discussion of the law, and wants to make it clear that He does not oppose the Law of Moses, but He will free it from the way the Pharisees and Scribes wrongly interpreted the law.

    b. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill: Jesus wants to make it clear that He has authority apart from the Law of Moses, but not in contradiction to it. Jesus added nothing to the law except one thing that no man had ever added to the law: perfect obedience. This is certainly one way Jesus came to fulfill the law.

    i. Even though He often challenged man's interpretations of the law (especially Sabbath regulations), Jesus never broke the law of God.

    c. One jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled: The jot and the tittle were small punctuation marks in Hebrew writing. It is as if Jesus says, "Not one dot of an "i" or not one cross of a "t" will pass away till all is fulfilled. And indeed, Jesus did perfectly fulfill the law.

    i. Jesus fulfilled the doctrinal teachings of the law in that He brought full revelation.

    ii. Jesus fulfilled the predictive prophecy of the law in that He is the Promised One, showing the reality behind the shadows.

    iii. Jesus fulfilled the ethical precepts of the law in that He fully obeyed them and He reinterpreted them in their truth.

    3. (19-20) The disciple's relationship to the law.

    "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

    a. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments: The commandments are to be obeyed as explained and fulfilled by Jesus' life and teaching, not as in the legalistic thinking of the religious authorities of Jesus' day. For example, sacrifice is commanded by the law, but it was fulfilled in Jesus, so we do not run the danger of being called least in the kingdom of heaven by not observing animal sacrifice as detailed in the Law of Moses.

    b. Whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven: The Christian is done with the law as a means of gaining a righteous standing before God. One passage that explains this is Galatians 2:21: For if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. However, the law stands as the perfect expression of God's ethical character and requirements.

    i. The law sends us to Jesus to be justified, because it shows us our inability to please God in ourselves. But after we come to Jesus, He sends us back to the law to learn the heart of God for our conduct and sanctification.

    c. Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven: Considering the incredible devotion to the law shown by the scribes and Pharisees, how can we ever hope to exceed their righteousness?

    i. The Pharisees were so scrupulous in their keeping of the law that they would even tithe from the small spices obtained from their herb gardens (Matthew 23:23). The heart of this devotion to God is shown by modern day Orthodox Jews. In early 1992, tenants let three apartments in an Orthodox neighborhood in Israel burn to the ground while they asked a rabbi whether a telephone call to the fire department on the Sabbath violated Jewish law. Observant Jews are forbidden to use the phone on the Sabbath, because doing so would break an electrical current, which is considered a form of work. In the half-hour it took the rabbi to decide "yes," the fire spread to two neighboring apartments.

    ii. We can exceed their righteousness because our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees in kind, not degree. Paul describes the two kinds of righteousness in Philippians 3:6-9: Concerning the righteousness which is in the law, [I was] blameless. But what things were gain to me, I have counted loss for Christ. But indeed, I count all things loss . . . that I may gain Christ, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

    iii. Though the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees was impressive to human observation, it could not prevail before God (Isaiah 64:6).

    d. So then, we are not made righteous by keeping the law. When we see what keeping the law really means, we are thankful that Jesus offers us a different kind of righteousness.
    **********************
    Here is a link to an online bible in which you can pick the translation you like best..its called biblegateway.

    My almost 15 year old son reads a chapter a day on that site...as he loaned his bible to a friend. His understanding of what he is reading is the same as what we are telling you on here.

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  11. #11

    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Jesus is simply stating what should be obvious. The OC laws & ordinances were the rules given by God to be obeyed to the letter. Failure to obey those laws to the letter will bring eternal death. God doe's not give you a C- and you get into heaven. You break a commandment, you are guilty, you go to Hell.

  12. #12
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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Wrong.

    You don't accept the sacrifice of Jesus, you keep all the commandments, you still go to hell.

    Heaven or hell is settled in Jesus, not in our actions.

  13. #13

    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    Jesus was still walking in the flesh. No sacrifice has been made.
    Quote Originally Posted by RabbiKnife View Post
    Wrong.

    You don't accept the sacrifice of Jesus, you keep all the commandments, you still go to hell.

    Heaven or hell is settled in Jesus, not in our actions.

  14. #14
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    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    The entire Sermon on the Mount is describing the Kingdom of Heaven as it would exist.

    Same ground rules apply. Jesus was not telling the listeners to fulfill every jot and tittle of the law or go to hell.

  15. #15

    Re: Some scary stuff in book of Matthew.

    I totally disagree. That is exactly what Jesus is doing.

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