Deadpan Snarker
Follow up from another thread.
Do they go to hell? John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Are they granted an exemption out of their own ignorance?
Do they get another chance?
Scripture to support your viewpoint please.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
guest
This is a frequently asked question. The standard answer is Romans 1:19-20. There is no excuse for not knowing God. Africa the dark continent had the gospel long before the Western world. Reason for this is given in vs 21-23 in Rom 1.Originally Posted by Fenris
God has leveled the playing field in Rom 11:32 God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all. It is no easier or harder for one to believe or not believe. Hebrews 11:6 If any man will come to God he must believe that He is and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
No exceptions for ignorance and no second chances. Jesus is the Light which lighteth every man that come into the world. John 1:9 God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9
John 3:16-21 is a compelling argument that God is fair and more than fair in His effort to redeem fallen mankind. How great is His love for us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Every sin has death in it
It may surprise you to learn that the person in the Bible who talked the most about hell was Jesus - and that's one reason why Christians take it so seriously. Jesus warned, "Do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).
I realize Jesus' words may not have much impact on you right now, since you don't believe in Him. But have you honestly realized what it would mean if God simply ignored all the sin and wickedness in the world, and never condemned anyone for their evil deeds - no matter how monstrous? This would mean there is no such thing as right or wrong, and tyrants like Hitler or Stalin would never be judged for their evil deeds.
But the Bible says otherwise. Evil is real, and someday God will judge it and bring it to an end. The Bible warns, "For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:14).
Yes, God's judgment is real. But listen: You don't have to fear it - and the reason is because Jesus Christ took upon Himself the judgment and hell we deserve. He did this because God loves us and wants us to be with Him in heaven forever. Turn to Christ and open your heart to Him today.
Amazzin
CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!
Deadpan Snarker
OK, now is this the usual Christian understanding?
I'm not being argumentative, I'm simply doing follow-up from another thread.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Deadpan Snarker
Understood. But this thread isn't about me, since I have heard of Jesus.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Firstfruits
<--Bluebird of Happiness
I offer that James summed it up pretty well. He said this:
James 4:
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
There are those who are not mentally able to comprehend. I just believe that God, being merciful, being all knowing, is able to determine if anyone is willfully being ignorant and who is not.
Grand Master
It's the one that is most often employed. I am personally a bit more liberal than most in my interpretation of that passage. I do believe that it insists that every person has an understanding of God and has no excuse. Many Christians, however, would say that this extends to Jesus specifically and point to "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through Me." In other words, God will somehow make a way for EVERYONE to have the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ, specifically.
I would say that it is possible that someone who has never heard the Gospel message to be saved by responding in Faith to the innate understanding of God, humbling themselves before Him and worshipping Him as they understand Him. I believe that this Faith in God would merit their salvation. The bigger question, I think is what about the person who is raised in India a strict Buddhist. They have some knowledge of what Christianity is, but ZERO cultural influence. Is this person condemned? Will God give them the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ? Does this person pay the penalty for where he was born?
Get on my horse.
I presume this what CS Lewis was attempting to address in the Last Battle with the one soldier (whose name escapes me) who earnestly sought to follow his god, Tash.
It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.
Coffee Break
The best answer is found in Rom 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Which means, God is not unfair, for people that were never exposed to the Bible, they will be judged differently. God is the one that sees the hearts, he lets in whoever he wants and he does not have to explain himself to anyone.
Shalom
Regular Contributor
***
Ha I was searching for that very same passage you beat me to it..
Even so, come, Lord Jesus
As I pointed out to you in the other thread where we've discussed this, I believe those who haven't heard of Jesus will be judged based on what they do know and everyone is expected to at least know and believe that God is the Creator and that they should glorify Him as God and be thankful as Paul talks about in Romans 1:18-21. Paul said that no one has any excuse for not at least believing in God and glorifying Him and being thankful to Him for what He has done. That knowledge comes from what God has made which everyone can see and understand.
I believe when it says that those who don't believe in Jesus are condemned in passages like John 3:18 it's specifically speaking of those who have heard the gospel but rejected it. They are condemned for doing that. I don't believe it's teaching that people are condemned for not believing it even if they haven't even heard of it. As Paul asked in Romans 10:14, "how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?". They can't. So if they can't believe in what they haven't heard then how can they be condemend for what they haven't heard? God is fair in His judgments and it simply would not be fair for someone to be condemned for not believing in Jesus if they haven't even heard of Him. Again, I believe those who have not heard of Jesus will be judged based on the standard Paul describes in Romans 1:18-21 as well as Romans 2:11-15, which was already posted above.
Are you surprised by the responses so far? The majority who have responded so far don't seem to agree with what you think is the "normative" Christian belief regarding this issue.
guest
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Paul quotes this in Rom 14:11.
Paul writes in Phillipians 2:9-11 of the exaultation of the name of Jesus Christ that every knee should bow and every tongue confess to the glory of the Father.
Do you really think that anyone on the earth has not heard of Jesus? Men are very religious all over the earth. Many feel the need to disparage the name of Jesus because they fear He may be Who He claims to be. I have never heard anyone use the name of buddah in the pejorative. That I find curious.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It's all up to God.
Exodus 33:19
I think many have not heard about the real Jesus. yes. I do.
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