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Thread: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

  1. #1
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    Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    To start I would like to say that i used a multitude of translations. I think its important for a number of reasons.

    Today while looking at the Gospels i came across something interesting. I mainly have been reading the ESV and HSCB for the last couple of years. Today i was comparing to the KJV with strongs numbers when i compared the following verse:

    Quote Originally Posted by ESV
    Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
    Quote Originally Posted by KJV
    Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    The brevity of the ESV seems to do that verse injustice. To me when i look at it side by side the KJV comes across as more rich. The elaboration emphasizes a point that the ESV seems to diminish.

    I like the ESV for its readability but i find this disheartening. Now for the question....

    Is there a site or something out there that would compare KJV to ESV passages? There is one off the top of my head that i disregard due to its blatant KJVonlyism. But i can't help but wonder how many other verses were compromised in such a fashion.

    I am dissatisfied and now feel i need to compare every verse i read all the time and keep a log of these things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Job 34:19
    God is not partial to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of His hands.

  2. #2
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    There are lots of good Bible tools that will let you compare text in different versions. I uses blueletterbible.org and www.e-sword.net (where you can download the free e-sword software.)

    The differenece you found between the ESV and the KJV is because they are translated from different Greek texts, the ESV from modern critical compilations of texts from Alexandria (Egypt) whereas the KJV comes from the Textus Receptus, which was used by the early Apostolic church according to "Defending the King James Bible" by D.A. Waite. Lately I've been reading less from my well-worn ESV and more from the VW-edition, which comes from the Textus Receptus.

  3. #3

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Perhaps try comparing it with other versions as well. It may be that the KJV is the only one that has those additional words.

  4. #4

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    I was just doing a quick check and come up with this.

    NIV - "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," with the following footnote: Some late manuscripts enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you

    NASB - "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

    AMP - "But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

    NLT - "But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!" with the following footnote: Some manuscripts add Bless those who curse you. Do good to those who hate you. Compare Luke 6:27-28.

    ASV - "but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;"

    YLT - "but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,"

    NKJV - "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you," With the following footnote: NU-Text omits three clauses from this verse, leaving, "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

  5. #5

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Quote Originally Posted by little watchman View Post
    There are lots of good Bible tools that will let you compare text in different versions. I uses blueletterbible.org and www.e-sword.net (where you can download the free e-sword software.)

    The differenece you found between the ESV and the KJV is because they are translated from different Greek texts, the ESV from modern critical compilations of texts from Alexandria (Egypt) whereas the KJV comes from the Textus Receptus, which was used by the early Apostolic church according to "Defending the King James Bible" by D.A. Waite. Lately I've been reading less from my well-worn ESV and more from the VW-edition, which comes from the Textus Receptus.
    Thanks for the VW-edition, never heard of it till now. lol

  6. #6
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Actually E-sword is what i was using when i found that. What a great program!

    I suppose this means i will have to study different greek texts? Seeking i wish i could pull a matrix and plug something into the back of my head and download all the data. i don't need to know kung-fu but i would like to have all the manuscripts memorized! LOL

    Thanks for the dialogue so far guys! Is there an easy to read site/bookk/etc that may talk about the difference between the TR and the other one? I guess i never really got into it. Things that i have come across are like listening to ben stein talk in Ferris Bueler's day off. LOL No offense to Mr Stein!

    I love God's word
    Quote Originally Posted by Job 34:19
    God is not partial to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of His hands.

  7. #7

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    If you have not found it yet, get the VW module for your version of e-Sword here
    http://www.a-voice.org/bible-vw/download.htm#sword
    Unzip the file and put it in the e-Sword folder in Program Files.
    Then Compare (tab) all versions you have installed or Parallel (tab) those you choose.

  8. #8
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickened View Post
    Is there an easy to read site/book/etc that may talk about the difference between the TR and the other one?
    I'd be interested in this, as well. I've read on this subject a fair bit, but not enough to conclude anything with confidence. I haven't yet read "Defending the King James Bible" by D.A. Waite, which I hear is one of the better treatments on the subject. Of course there are many easy to read websites on the issue...on both sides. a-voice.org and watch.pair.com both have TR-favorable articles that I thought were helpful, but not conclusive.

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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickened View Post
    Actually E-sword is what i was using when i found that. What a great program!

    I suppose this means i will have to study different greek texts? Seeking i wish i could pull a matrix and plug something into the back of my head and download all the data. i don't need to know kung-fu but i would like to have all the manuscripts memorized! LOL

    Thanks for the dialogue so far guys! Is there an easy to read site/bookk/etc that may talk about the difference between the TR and the other one? I guess i never really got into it. Things that i have come across are like listening to ben stein talk in Ferris Bueler's day off. LOL No offense to Mr Stein!

    I love God's word
    Hi Quickend,

    Actually there are several different texts. There are over 5000 different manuscripts presently and no two read exactly the same.

  10. #10
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    ...............
    "The Lord is my shepherd."

  11. #11

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickened View Post
    Actually E-sword is what i was using when i found that. What a great program!

    I suppose this means i will have to study different greek texts? Seeking i wish i could pull a matrix and plug something into the back of my head and download all the data. i don't need to know kung-fu but i would like to have all the manuscripts memorized! LOL

    Thanks for the dialogue so far guys! Is there an easy to read site/bookk/etc that may talk about the difference between the TR and the other one? I guess i never really got into it. Things that i have come across are like listening to ben stein talk in Ferris Bueler's day off. LOL No offense to Mr Stein!

    I love God's word
    I used to use Bible Explorer (http://www.bible-explorer.com/). It is free to use and is very good for searching and looking up and copy-pasting but I prefer another similar program called WORDsearch (http://www.wordsearchbible.com/catal...t.php?pid=3865). Free bibles for Bible Explorer are found here (http://www.bible-explorer.com/free.php) (which is also compatible with WORDsearch). Another list of free books for that program are found here (http://www.wordsearchbible.com/freebooks).

  12. #12
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    The ESV is correct. The KJV adds those phrases to Matthew from Luke. You can find the same text in the ESV at Luke 6:27-28 . . .
    27 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.

    The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001), Lk 6:27-28.
    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - unknown

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

  13. #13
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickened View Post
    To start I would like to say that i used a multitude of translations. I think its important for a number of reasons.

    Today while looking at the Gospels i came across something interesting. I mainly have been reading the ESV and HSCB for the last couple of years. Today i was comparing to the KJV with strongs numbers when i compared the following verse:





    The brevity of the ESV seems to do that verse injustice. To me when i look at it side by side the KJV comes across as more rich. The elaboration emphasizes a point that the ESV seems to diminish.

    I like the ESV for its readability but i find this disheartening. Now for the question....

    Is there a site or something out there that would compare KJV to ESV passages? There is one off the top of my head that i disregard due to its blatant KJVonlyism. But i can't help but wonder how many other verses were compromised in such a fashion.

    I am dissatisfied and now feel i need to compare every verse i read all the time and keep a log of these things.
    Hi Quickened,
    Here are some sites I use online when I want to do a comparison study. The bible gateway allows you to compare verses in multiple translations. I also use the online hebrew-greek sites to get an idea of what the original was saying.I use the on-line strongs sometimes as well.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/ (multiple translations)
    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm (Greek interlinear)
    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm (Hebrew interlinear)
    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html (online Strongs with Hebrew/Greek lexicon)

    These resources have been helpful to me.

    *edit* There is also a free download link to download the Greek/Hebrew software for offline use.
    free download:http://www.scripture4all.org/downloa...load_ISA20.php
    Last edited by shepherdsword; May 22nd 2011 at 11:55 AM. Reason: free download

    Blessings

    and Popcorn


    "You can make the scriptures say whatever you want if you torture them long enough"

  14. #14

    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    I never use HSCB the overdraft charges are ridiculous.


    sorry.


  15. #15
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    Re: Translation Question (KJV vs ESV)

    Since the KJV is translated word for word from the Aramaic tongue right out of the mouth of Christ, well that sounds like a no-brainer to me.
    If Satan can keep us busy swinging our swords at one another, there is no hope of a united attack on the kingdom of darkness. KJV, NIV, ESV or ABCDEFG; there is no time to bicker over such things. We'll devour each other if allowed to continue. We should grab the marching orders written in the way we best understand and get to work.

    Andrew_no_one





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