Friends you thought you had

[SteveL]

OK I don't know if this belongs moreso here or in counseling, but I think I need some comforting and encouragement moreso than counseling.

I've had a hectic 2010. I left two churches this year, and when I left my 1st church in May, I quickly found out who my real friends were from that church, as the others dropped me from their lives (would not respond to my individual emails, etc.) My old SG (small group) leader who used to disciple me a bit, and I thought we were genuinely good friends regardless, once I left the church he stopped talking to me. It hurt for a while, and that's when I realized Christians aren't perfect, either. We're just like any other human beings, we're still messed up, we still mess up but we have God in our lives.

Still, to be perfectly honest with you, I expected more from Christians. It made me think did he disciple me out of pure love and for my well-being and growth, OR did he disciple me moreso because I happened to be in his SG (i.e. obligation)?

So, in early January I left my 2nd church (really late December though). I thought I handled it in the classiest and most courteous manner possible. I simply felt the Spirit calling me elsewhere and so I informed my SG members (I was actually the leader of the SG) and pastor and invited the pastor to the night where I was making the official announcement. Of course, I made sure to inform the core members 1-on-1 either over phone or in person the week prior.

Well, since I left that church, a couple "friends" I would consider true caring friends, have been rather slow to respond to my emails. Last night I was trying to chat with a sister I was pretty close with (she used to INITIATE phone calls with me which would last up to an hour)... she didn't even respond to me like I mattered! Her one or two word replies came 5-10 minutes after my messaging, and eventually she said sorry gotta go talk later? see ya.

It was just very cold, and unlike her because she is the sweetest sister I've ever met, and in the past she always made sure to respond to me right away.

And then there's a couple who mentored us. They always replied to my emails within 24 hours. I sent them both an update email, just checking in, 3 days ago and no reply yet. I am baffled.

Is it me? Is it them? What's going on here? I understand the "take care of your own first" mentality, as in your family and local church body first, but really we're all one big family under God. Why do so many people have church allegiances and why is it when you leave a church 90% of the people don't reply back to you the way they did when you were going to the church?

Personally, if a brother or sister reaches out to me via email, I'll take a minute to respond and check back in with him or her. Even if we're not good friends. It's common courtesy and wow, they thought enough of me to email me. How precious, and so, I'd reply with my 2 cents back. But I guess maybe that's just the way I am...

Another thing that annoys me is whenever you post a status update on FaceBook, no one from my first church "likes" it or comments. However, when I was going to that church, I'd always get several likes and comments from that church body. Once I left, they stopped liking and commenting on my status. Sorry, but I think that's just silly and childish!

I'm writing similar things -- praising God, sharing verses, Christian music vidoes from youtube etc. But now they no longer "support" me.

Anyone else have similar stories or experiences? I don't get how Christians can be so quick to forget and toss you aside if you change churches. We're still in the same family! Any words of comfort or encouragement? It's times like this when I get the feeling there IS a "social in-circle" and a "cliche-y" mentality within any given church. Sad... because I believe spirit-filled believers should be WAY ABOVE that "high school-level" drivel. I even had my former pastor email me to ask me to stop emailing my prayer requests to the members of her congregation -- that I should get that support from my current church. While I understand looking at it from her point of view, I still found it more than mildly appalling "Do not send us your prayer requests ever again." (I'd write them like once every 3-4 months, just keeping them posted on the milestones in my Christian walk). I guess this is why Christ is perfect and why we all fall short of the glory of God.

[Diggindeeper]

Believe me, this has happened to more of us than you can possibly guess. Been there, done that. Its pretty common.

I'm like you. I wish it was not that way, but it is. Kind of an 'out of sight, out of mind' thing. Many, it seems, take it kind of like you are abandoning them, rather than just moving on.

I've seen people in the Walmart or somewhere like that who I had gone to church with somewhere else. Gone up to them, so happy to see them. Then, soon as they'd see it was me or my husband, they'd turn their back to us and walk away. I've found it best to just move on anyway, in spite of the hurt. I hold no bitterness to them. I just figure I love them anyway. So, its their problem.

[SteveL]

I wish it was not that way, but it is. Kind of an 'out of sight, out of mind' thing. Many, it seems, take it kind of like you are abandoning them, rather than just moving on.

Kinda brings the old saying "I love you, but I don't have to like you" to life a bit. Yeah, even when you leave a church for the right reasons (i.e. God led) and they all support you, as soon as you walk out the door, it's like their support was "false" to begin with, based on their current actions. I agree -- I guess there could be feelings of "Oh (s)he left for a church they thought is better, or a place that will recognize their talents more..."

I dunno. Who knows what people are really thinking. Yes, I'm trying to release it to God as well. It gets easier the 2nd time around, still a bit shocking though as I expect more from Christians in general. Before I lift someone up in prayer or help someone, I'm not going to ask myself, "Wait, is this person from my church? Oh, no? Then forget them!"

[Diggindeeper]

I have found, over the years, that I do still have a very few who remain my friends...and after 10, 15, 20 years...they still keep in touch. Not every day. Not every week. Some just now and then. But they are still there, walking beside you regardless of which path either of us have taken. But, hear this...they will still be there, although they will turn out to be few in numbers.

[-SEEKING-]

Sadly this happens more often than we'd probably like to admit. I know I dealt with this when I left the only church I had known since becoming a Christian. You'd think that after knowing people and fellowshiping with them for over 14 years, your friendship would extend beyond those 4 walls. Boy was I wrong.

[Spike]

A thousand times, this entire thread. ANd yet, members of my former Baha'i group emailed me two weeks ago when they found out I'd updated my info at their house of worship. They promptly invited me to dinner. Left phone numbers and said, "CALL ME." It was like I'd never stopped being a part of their lives. THe contrast is so shocking as compared to what happens with Christians I'd thought I was close friends with.

It's making me give a very serious consideration to return to that faith, where it seems people care more about the person than the way they worship. They actually encouraged me to check out Christian churches, as well, to study carefully before making a choice. And, if I continued to visit christian churches while Baha'i, there were no recriminations -- it was all gravy, as far as they were concerned.

*sigh.* Methinks I have some prayin' to do.

[SteveL]

^ What is Baha'i? Is that a different religion that preaches things not about Christ? If so, be very careful with that brother.

No humans are perfect. Don't let that discourage you from the faith in Christ you have. After all, it's faith in Christ, not faith in people.

PS- If I have misinterpreted your post in any way, disregard this, heh.

[Spike]

^ What is Baha'i? Is that a different religion that preaches things not about Christ? If so, be very careful with that brother.

No humans are perfect. Don't let that discourage you from the faith in Christ you have. After all, it's faith in Christ, not faith in people.

PS- If I have misinterpreted your post in any way, disregard this, heh.

Actually, I'm a sister. :grin:

And no, actually they do accept Christ. There aren't any preachers or ministers -- it's basically set up where people are pretty much equal -- they don't believe any particular personage knows or hears from God more than anyone else.

They /do/ accept other religious texts as revelations from God for a particular time and culture, and things like that. I haven't studied from it in awhile, so I can't really give you much info - I'd literally have to search stuff to remember.

[NHL Fever]

Actually, I'm a sister. :grin:

I was kind of wondering...after reading your post I was thinking this sounds more like a woman coming to terms with an experience like that than a 'spike' lol. I think because women are more relationship-oriented it can hurt more when relationships are lost, I'm very sorry you had that experience. I also try to be very detached from expectations the older I get. I think when we have some bad experiences in life there are two ways to go - you either become a forgiveness expert or you become jaded and bitter. Everyone in our lives will dissapoint us at some point, and we will dissapoint everyone at some point as well. When people are involved in a church for a long time, the church can become part of their personal identify. Leaving the church is therefore an attack on them personally.

You may also want to consider a possible role for jealousy. Some of these friends may actually be envious that you have the courage to take a step out in faith and on the inside they want a more adventursome Christian walk as well. My wife and I had several friends who left our church and we were very happy for them and we remain close friends. When they left I remember thinking that while I was sad to see them go it was also a new chapter and a change in their lives and I hoped I wished I could also be compelled to make changes like that. If your friends shut you off for following the spirit, it probably means that to them its much more about them than about you. You will certainly meet lots of great people as well in your life that will turn out to be true friends.

[SteveL]

Spike, oops, heh. My apologies. Well, I pray the Spirit will lead you in this entire process and that you'll just be obedient to God's calling and follow Him. Proverbs 3:5-6

When people are involved in a church for a long time, the church can become part of their personal identify. Leaving the church is therefore an attack on them personally.

You may also want to consider a possible role for jealousy. Some of these friends may actually be envious that you have the courage to take a step out in faith and on the inside they want a more adventursome Christian walk as well. My wife and I had several friends who left our church and we were very happy for them and we remain close friends. When they left I remember thinking that while I was sad to see them go it was also a new chapter and a change in their lives and I hoped I wished I could also be compelled to make changes like that. If your friends shut you off for following the spirit, it probably means that to them its much more about them than about you. You will certainly meet lots of great people as well in your life that will turn out to be true friends.

Lot of truth here brother (I hope I'm right this time!). It's possible they're jealous. I think what someone said earlier said it best. I was looking for piano lessons but ended up in a place selling guitar lessons. It wasn't a good match and over time that was made apparent. Not that guitar is worse than piano, just, different strokes for different folks. I felt more at home in a church that was more Biblically-backed. The church I left was a casual church... in a way it really fit the demographic of the area with a lot of intellectual people and what have you. It's not very charismatic (no hand raising during worship) and the sermons are heavy on anecdotes and real life stories versus scripture. I missed the more scripture-based teaching after a while. I know this may sound silly but I also did not feel comfortable raising my hand during their worship. Even though I know it's for God, I felt very self-conscious if I were the only one doing it.

The people there seem to be decent people, but a little too worldly for my liking. Too many social activities for the sake of "just hanging out" (which drained me after a while, honestly) and too much worldly behavior (i.e. materialism, jokes and phrases that were inappropriate at times, clique-y attitude etc). Basically, I wasn't seeing a whole lot of fruit and examples of the Gospel transforming lives. I saw people who (sometimes) went to church on Sunday, but by Thursday they'd be acting in the same worldly manner -- their pride and ego unchanged by God's gracious Word. I know we're all works in progress, but this other church I had been visiting for a long time (the one I eventually moved to) is just a solid, scripture-heavy, diverse church where you can see a lot of fruit for God's kingdom and people who really really love the Lord and worship Him without abandon. Here you do see Gospel transforming lives, and I also feel God's presence there in a massive way. I realized that's where I belong.

It's very possible my SG members could be a little bit jealous that I had the courage to stop, step down and leave. Perhaps some of them want to leave themselves, but are caught up in a safe routine? I don't know, I just know I yielded to the Holy Spirit's leading. My heart was no longer in leading the SG, nor was my heart in that church anymore. I also don't think it was wise of them to ask me to be leader several months ago, even though I was still very much in need of discipleship and was not ready to lead a group of young adults at this point in my very young walk. I'm glad God provided opportunities and opened the door for me to gracefully leave. There truly is FREEDOM and liberation when one follows and earnestly seeks Christ. I'm glad God took me out when He did -- not too early, not too late -- His timing is always perfect.

Now I'm enjoying my rest (a lot less social activities and not having to prep the Bible Studies) and growing more in His word through personal daily reading time, sermons and now I'm also taking a foundation Bible Study class at my new church (in addition to BSF AKA Bible Study Fellowship, which I highly recommend. This year we're studying the book of Isaiah... there's a local BSF in your town just look it up!). I'm loving this new season of my life! It feels really good to be free and to be walking BACK in the will of God

[Firefighter]

-- it's basically set up where people are pretty much equal -- they don't believe any particular personage knows or hears from God more than anyone else.

So is Christianity...

[RabbiKnife]

I have very few friends. I have been stabbed in the back by more Christians than non-Christians, over the years. I tend to keep friends close and enemies closer.

Labels don't mean much when it comes to what the world and much of the church calls "friends."

[Spike]

So is Christianity...

Then why do Christians have preachers, deacons, and a church hierarchy? When I say that Baha'is don't have this, I mean there is literally no hierarchy. At all. Any officials (treasurers, that sort of thing)are elected. There is a National Assembly, along with local assemblies. Mostly to take care of the business end of things. But, at a Baha'i meeting, you won't see certain individuals with any title like, "Minister, pastor, deacon, bishop..." any of those, within the services, nobody's got any more 'title' than anyone else. And, if a Baha'i layperson wanted information on the business end of it, as far as I know, they can get it fairly easily.

[Otter77]

I agree with many below... I've had similar experiences in jobs, neighborhoods, family groups... everything. I guess I've come to expect that Friendship is fluid - many times a subject of context, convenience and geography.

When I have a Friend - I (try to) invest in them fully... I love them unconditionally... but few friends remain forever. In fact the only one that's ever stuck around for me permanently so far has been my wife. During the friendship I consider these feelings, intents, actions and everything to be WHOLLY genuine. I would never judge later that what I did or felt during that time was not genuine simply because I'm not feeling it anymore. People change - period.

---

Perhaps an alternative perspective on your particular situation - SteveL... I was saved at my current church, I've never loved another. So from a Church perspective it would be unfair of me to attempt to identify with you.

I want to add this though: I feel almost the same way about my Church as I do about my Wife. I love it/him/her and the people in it including all their flaws and failings despite all of them... just as I have experienced love from them/it/her exactly the same. The people will let you down eventually - but as a collective there is always that unified Love. A rather undying (I hope - at least so far) commitment despite changes. In the time since I've joined my church we have grown from a regular congregation of about 120 to about 800 with now two distinct locations. The nature of my church has changed significantly over that time... many things for the better... a few for the "worse" (whatever that means)... but ultimately I Love it even more today than I did then. This is not unlike my relationship with my Wife at all. We married when I was only 19. I'm 34 now. We're both COMPLETELY different people today than we were then.... and entirely intensely more in Love.

My Church is my bride. If you tell me that you want to continue to be my friend, but you don't like my church. It's just as if you said to me: I like you Otter, but I don't like your wife very much.

That's probably a friendship-ender.

It's ok for you not to like my Church and I don't judge you for that... but if you don't accept me along with my bride (we are ONE!) then you don't accept me at all.

[SteveL]

My Church is my bride. If you tell me that you want to continue to be my friend, but you don't like my church. It's just as if you said to me: I like you Otter, but I don't like your wife very much.

That's probably a friendship-ender.

It's ok for you not to like my Church and I don't judge you for that... but if you don't accept me along with my bride (we are ONE!) then you don't accept me at all.

Interesting analogy there Otter. I see where you're coming from. I guess that is just how some people feel. Obviously when people leave a church, it's because they feel they have found a better fit. And while a "better fit" doesn't necessarily mean it's a "better church" -- the perception probably is that it is. And thus, people from your old church may feel you think you're better than them, or that you're "too good" for them or their church (AKA bride).

That makes a lot of sense.

At the same time, and this is JUST my thinking, as Christians it should go beyond which church we call home and live and die with. In the end it's our personal relationships with one another that count more, and looking at it from that angle, it's true that many people see friendship as a subject of context, convenience and geography as you mentioned. I think Christians should look beyond what church you call home, what denomination you are, because we're all God's family and friends. However, realistically, we cannot expect that because human behavior is very fickle especially when one leaves the church.

I'm happy to report though that the married couple has emailed me back. Sure, it took them four days, but I'm surprised they did. It shows me they still care, but obviously, I'm not a big priority as I was before. That's fine. I don't expect people to get back to me within 24 hours, as they did when I was part of their church, but respond back and show you care, period.

She asked me to keep her and her husband updated on my new church happenings. I guess I'll update them as the Spirit leads. I'm not sure when I'll see them or my old SG members again. Haven't seen them since I left the church 3 weeks ago.