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Thread: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

  1. #1

    For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Based on my Biblical understanding....

    The implication that Adam died Spiritually when he committed his first sin, would mean that God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were Wrong, when they made Adam an Eternal, Spiritual, Being to begin with... only to fall on the hand of the old serpent. It seems to suggest that God has no foreknowledge of this event when they first created Adam, as Spiritual being in the beginning.

    Adam was physically made on the 3rd Day… becoming a natural living soul. He then named the beasts of the Field and Birds, formed from the ground by Jesus at the beginning of the 6th Day. Then, Eve was made from his rib.

    In the day (6th day) Adam and Eve were Created in image and likeness of God... both have already committed their first sin (“original sin”). This creation event took place long after Cain had already killed Abel; only after they began calling upon the name of the Lord. Scripture readily available for your reference upon request.

    Adam & Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord... by being born again spiritually in the image and likeness of God.

    1 Corinthians 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. V46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL.


    God Bless

  2. #2

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    There are three (numeric) that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three (numeric) are one (collective one - "echad"). 1John 5:7.

    In order for one to die Spiritually, one must first be Born Spiritually.

    "Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a spiritual Being. This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

    When Jesus PHYSICALLY formed Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul Gen. 2:7 - on the 3rd day – it was not a spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made from his rib (until the 6th day).

    In fact, it did not include the agreement of "US" on that particular time. This is why it would not reconciled to Gen. 1:26~27 (which shows that they were both created in the image and likeness of God, spiritually at the same time) nor it will harmonize to John 14:16-17.

    Jesus Christ is the Image of the invisible God - who is a Spirit. Col. 1:15 In Him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically). Col. 2:9 Jesus says "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" John 14:9.

    In order to be created in the image and likeness of God (who is a Spirit), one must first call upon the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26) and be born again spiritually in Christ - who is the express image and likeness of God.

    God Bless

  3. #3
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Nope. Not even close. You're absolutely convinced, though, so not much need to refute it.

  4. #4

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    I'll bite. Give me a scripture for this third day creation of man.

    Thanks

  5. #5
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    What church teaches what you are saying?

  6. #6
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    The fall is not what most people think it was:

    Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    GOD would not allow sin (man) to be Immortal, GOD said,

    Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Adam was supposed to be immortal being but had not attained it, thus still being mortal and ate form the tree of knowledge, never eating from the tree of life.
    If Satan can keep us busy swinging our swords at one another, there is no hope of a united attack on the kingdom of darkness. KJV, NIV, ESV or ABCDEFG; there is no time to bicker over such things. We'll devour each other if allowed to continue. We should grab the marching orders written in the way we best understand and get to work.

    Andrew_no_one





  7. #7
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    WOW... that's a pretty creative interpretation you've got there.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  8. #8

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Brethren,

    Here's you would reconcile the accounts of Adam in the day he was physically formed by Jesus on the 3rd day (Gen. 2:7) before he was spiritually created in the image on likeness of God on the 6th day - based strictly from the Scripture.

    Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation. My words are in black.

    Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were Created (by the Almighty Father thru the power of his logos - ex-nihilo), in the day that the LORD God Made (from the palms of the Son' hands) the earth and the heavens,

    The 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 This verse (Gen.2:4) is speaking of heavenS being made in the SAME day as the Earth. Our Earth was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:9 The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.

    This verse continues to identify the 3rd Day. The plants and herbs were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:11-12 Why is it so important for the 3rd Day to be identified. Read the next verses.

    Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. v7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    As you should clearly see, Adam was Physically Formed on the 3rd Day... just Before the plants, herbs, and right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground.

    Once you understand this, you will see that mankind has preeminence or first place among all other living creatures. It is also in agreement with the events of the 6th Day when the LORD made the animals from the dust and brought them to Adam to name them. Notice that Adam was ALONE at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen 2:18

    BELIEVE IT OR NOT!

    1 Corinthians 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. V46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is Natural; and afterward that which is Spiritual.


    God Bless

  9. #9
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Based on this and other threads, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that people can find in the bible whatever they want to.

  10. #10

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Based on this and other threads, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that people can find in the bible whatever they want to.
    Dear Fenris,

    Which exactly is it that you are having problem in my post? Perhaps, I can help you further understand. Thanks.

    God Bless

  11. #11
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Piilars View Post
    Brethren,

    Here's you would reconcile the accounts of Adam in the day he was physically formed by Jesus on the 3rd day (Gen. 2:7) before he was spiritually created in the image on likeness of God on the 6th day - based strictly from the Scripture.

    Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation. My words are in black.

    Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were Created (by the Almighty Father thru the power of his logos - ex-nihilo), in the day that the LORD God Made (from the palms of the Son' hands) the earth and the heavens,

    The 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 This verse (Gen.2:4) is speaking of heavenS being made in the SAME day as the Earth. Our Earth was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:9 The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.

    This verse continues to identify the 3rd Day. The plants and herbs were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:11-12 Why is it so important for the 3rd Day to be identified. Read the next verses.

    Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. v7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    As you should clearly see, Adam was Physically Formed on the 3rd Day... just Before the plants, herbs, and right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground.

    Once you understand this, you will see that mankind has preeminence or first place among all other living creatures. It is also in agreement with the events of the 6th Day when the LORD made the animals from the dust and brought them to Adam to name them. Notice that Adam was ALONE at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen 2:18

    BELIEVE IT OR NOT!

    1 Corinthians 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. V46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is Natural; and afterward that which is Spiritual.


    God Bless
    Genesis 2 is an algamation of all that God did in chapter 1, it is not sayiing that God made man on the third day. It would be in contradiction to what was previously written.

    Firstfruits

  12. #12

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    Genesis 2 is an algamation of all that God did in chapter 1, it is not sayiing that God made man on the third day. It would be in contradiction to what was previously written.

    Firstfruits
    Correct, it does not say that "God made man on the third day" verbatim.... that's why you need to reconcile the account of Genesis 1 & 2 as I have shown you based on Biblical facts.

    Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

    What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1

    Isaiah 46
    9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest, are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End.

    Of course the above analogy is only based on my own biblical understanding. You can correct me if I am wrong.


    God Bless

  13. #13
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Piilars View Post
    Brethren,

    Here's you would reconcile the accounts of Adam in the day he was physically formed by Jesus on the 3rd day (Gen. 2:7) before he was spiritually created in the image on likeness of God on the 6th day - based strictly from the Scripture.

    Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation. My words are in black.

    Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were Created (by the Almighty Father thru the power of his logos - ex-nihilo), in the day that the LORD God Made (from the palms of the Son' hands) the earth and the heavens,

    The 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 This verse (Gen.2:4) is speaking of heavenS being made in the SAME day as the Earth. Our Earth was made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:9 The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.

    This verse continues to identify the 3rd Day. The plants and herbs were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:11-12 Why is it so important for the 3rd Day to be identified. Read the next verses.

    Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. v7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    As you should clearly see, Adam was Physically Formed on the 3rd Day... just Before the plants, herbs, and right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground.

    Once you understand this, you will see that mankind has preeminence or first place among all other living creatures. It is also in agreement with the events of the 6th Day when the LORD made the animals from the dust and brought them to Adam to name them. Notice that Adam was ALONE at the beginning of the 6th Day. Gen 2:18

    BELIEVE IT OR NOT!

    1 Corinthians 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. V46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is Natural; and afterward that which is Spiritual.


    God Bless


    Unlike others in here, I'm actually following your reasoning, not that I'm agreeing or anything, because I'm not. So the first question that comes to mind is this. Why would God form the man on day 3, then create him in His image on day 6? Why not do all that at the same time? Also, when did you say the woman was formed again? What day?

  14. #14
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    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Piilars View Post
    Dear Fenris,

    Which exactly is it that you are having problem in my post? Perhaps, I can help you further understand. Thanks.
    The bible in plain text says that man was created on the sixth day. But you find a reference to man being created before that. Why? because it fits your preconcieved notion of something. If someone were so inclined, I'm sure they could find a reference to man being created on the first day. Or the 21st day. or the 101st day.

  15. #15

    Re: For Discussion: The Flaws of the "Fall Theory"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The bible in plain text says that man was created on the sixth day. But you find a reference to man being created before that. Why? because it fits your preconcieved notion of something. If someone were so inclined, I'm sure they could find a reference to man being created on the first day. Or the 21st day. or the 101st day.
    If you read very closely what I have posted, you will see that I am claiming that man was "MADE" on the third day before man was CREATED spiritually in the image and likeness of God on the 6th day.

    There's a big difference in the usage of words "Create" (ex-nihilo) and "Made" (formed from existing matters) biblically speaking - and you should know better than that... based on your Hebrew signage in your avatar.

    Thanks

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