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Thread: Three Days and Three Nights

  1. #271
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    watchinginawe,
    re: "The narratives do not have to satisfy a 72 hour burial period in order to validate Jesus to be Jesus."

    Agreed, but the Messiah told the scribes and Pharisees that 3 night times would be involved. I don't see how anyone can say that only 2 night times would satisfy His forecast.
    Three night times are involved when considering Jesus' betrayal and imprisonment. But still, I believe the resurrection validates Jesus' prophesies. If it seems inconvenient to me that the Gospel narratives indicate only 2 night times involved after His death, I can't help it. I don't think the Gospels need assistance in communicating the Truth of Jesus Christ. They are fine as they are. If some want to see a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion indicated, I'm not offended. If they go on to condemn those who believe the crucifixion was on a Friday as deceived by a counterfeit Jesus, then I can only pray for them.

    Edit: Good to see you rstrats. I hope things are well for you.
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

  2. #272

    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    CadyandZoe,
    re: "Jesus...said that he would be in the tomb for three days, and as it turned out he was in the tomb Thursday, Friday, and Saturday."
    It doesn't add up, for JESUS died and was buried between the ninth hour - 3pm and twelfth hour - 6pm. Those involved were to do this before the preparation of the Passover and Passover celebration itself. For example, due to the task involved, from the Cross to the burial, let us say by 5pm all has been done. Therefore, Thursday 5pm - Friday 5pm is one day. Then Friday 5pm - Saturday 5pm is two days. And Saturday 5pm - Sunday 5pm is three days. But at dawn Sunday, the first day of the week, the tomb was already empty

    He also said that three nights would be involved. How do you account for the lack of a third night?
    Sadly, one's explanation is 'thwart' at the moment, against the written truth and it's sound doctrine knowledge.

  3. #273

    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    That is an irrelevant question because it has nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus died around 3 pm, which is at least three hours before that day ended. Remember, Jesus said He would be in the heart of the earth three days and nights. That is His spirit, not His body. The spirit goes to Hades immediately upon death. His body being put in the tomb a few hours later has nothing to do with being in the "heart" of the earth. A tomb on the surface of the earth is by no means the "heart" of the earth. The three days the nights are about His spirit, not His flesh.
    Methinks according to the word of God, at the moment of death his spirit went into the hands of his Father, his body was still hanging on the stake and his soul, by death, passed though the gates of Hades into Hades.

    Luke 23:46 Luke 26:52,53 Acts 2:27 Matt 16:18

    I believe the Son of Man, the soul Jesus, was dead, three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, Hades, the lowest parts of the earth. relative to John 11:9.10 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. Isa 53 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

  4. #274

    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    That would mean he would have to rise on the 4th day right?
    No, when He died, it was still 'day'. And then night, after 6pm, which is already the next day and date for Israel.

  5. #275

    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    JESUS said, is there not 12 hours in a day when one must do all his work, and before nightfall that he won't stumble in the dark? In other words what JESUS also meant, there is also 12 hours of night in Israel, where man are unable to work when it is already dark. As for example, shepherd stay watch by 'night', and work in the 'day', to bring the herds to pasture and water. Plus at night majority are depended on the light from the moon?

    Three days and nights in the heart of the earth, where JESUS ministered to the spirit who were bound from Noah's time. In another account once again, JESUS fasted for forty days and forty nights, and what is so confusing and therefore desperate enough to 'twist' the teaching and Scriptures to one's own destruction?

    Stop!

  6. #276
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by watchinginawe View Post
    Please show me where the Bible, particularly the canon of the New Testament, doesn't fit your latter definition of "Orthodoxy". As I challenged you before, why not take the deep plunge and organize your own canon of scripture based on what you find to be true? I obviously don't encourage you to do that, and I agree that we should test doctrine with Scripture. But we can't be predisposed that everything of tradition is flawed, else we dispose of the Bible itself. If we believe the canon of scripture is on solid ground because of the witness and tests of the early church, then we might want to consider their witness regarding the day of Jesus' crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection. Especially when, from my view, historical tradition lines up with the Gospel narratives.
    I don't agree with your conclusion that to question tradition is to dispose of the Bible.

    You are stating that Jesus was buried on a different day (Jewish day) than that which He died. I disagree that the Gospel narratives show that. Jesus was betrayed, judged, crucified, died, and was buried the same day, the "day of preparation", that being Friday. Historical tradition and early church writings also support that.
    Have you investigated this yourself or are you simply satisfied with your tradition? I have investigated this myself and I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty that Jesus was not crucified or buried on Friday. Everyone, except the Catholic church knows this.

    Maybe I misunderstand your reckoning, but it seems intended to make things that are otherwise inconvenient fit. For me, if Jesus was in the tomb for only two nights, the Jesus of the Gospel narratives is still Jesus, period. The narratives do not have to satisfy a 72 hour burial period in order to validate Jesus to be Jesus.
    rstrats is to be commended for taking the text seriously when Jesus says he will be three days and three nights in the tomb. And everyone, except the Catholics can see that Friday and Saturday don't add up to three days, whether the days are whole or partial. rstrats and I and many others are attempting to piece together the whole story under the assumption that Jesus and the gospel writers are telling the truth. If we find that Jesus spent two days and two nights in the tomb, then the veracity of the gospel accounts come into question. And who are we to believe, the Catholic church or the gospel writers?

  7. #277
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    watchinginawe,
    re: "The narratives do not have to satisfy a 72 hour burial period in order to validate Jesus to be Jesus."

    Agreed, but the Messiah told the scribes and Pharisees that 3 night times would be involved. I don't see how anyone can say that only 2 night times would satisfy His forecast.
    rstrats, I am attempting to attach a PDF of my spread sheet, which was produced as a form of personal Bible study. And if you get this it will be a miracle since I am not very good at technology.

    If you can read this file, you will see that I forgot to put lines in my grid to help the reader know where the days of the week start and end, but hopefully the colors will help. Yellow represents daylight hours and purple represents night time hours. I'm fairly sure I have gathered and assembled all the information correctly. But I could be wrong.

    Let me know what you think. Passion Week.pdf

  8. #278
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    jeffweeder,
    re: "Yet those scriptures you quoted don't say after 3 days ..and nights."


    I'm afraid I don't see your point. I wonder if you might explain?

  9. #279
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I don't agree with your conclusion that to question tradition is to dispose of the Bible.
    Have you then questioned the Bible? By what judge do you accept the canon of the New Testament CadyandZoe, since your "test" is Scripture which is bounded by the New Testament canon, of which we have largely by tradition and dogma which you apparently despise. Have you never really grappled with this before? Do you think God beamed the New Testament down to the reformers or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe
    Have you investigated this yourself or are you simply satisfied with your tradition? I have investigated this and I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty that Jesus was not crucified or buried on Friday. Everyone, except the Catholic church knows this.
    I have investigated this myself many times and for many years and continue to this day. Additionally, I have studied reconciliations of the Synoptic Gospels to the Gospel of John by many individuals. None are satisfying and all are fascinating and revealing. You may think all of this can be tidied up with some math and checking of Jewish tradition, but it doesn't, especially in view of the narratives themselves and in light of tradition. Thus, I hold the more inconvenient view of the study to this point, that the unbroken tradition of the church reconciles with the Gospel narratives and that there isn't some kind of juicy esoteric doctrine here that I can concoct to line everything up. Let the truth be truth, even if it supports tradition.

    Your view requires the church to have a lost historicity of the events surrounding Jesus' death and resurrection during the time that the canon of the Bible was authenticated by the church. That view more lines up with an invented christianity after the fact complete with the religious writings like what is accused by many.

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe
    rstrats is to be commended for taking the text seriously when Jesus says he will be three days and three nights in the tomb. And everyone, except the Catholics can see that Friday and Saturday don't add up to three days, whether the days are whole or partial. rstrats and I and many others are attempting to piece together the whole story under the assumption that Jesus and the gospel writers are telling the truth. If we find that Jesus spent two days and two nights in the tomb, then the veracity of the gospel accounts come into question. And who are we to believe, the Catholic church or the gospel writers?
    As far as I know, rstrats continues to be an unbeliever. rstrats, like me, has been at this topic for many years now, maybe more than a decade. Many many studied posts on the topic have been exchanged. rstrats has a continuing apparent curiosity with the conflict of this topic as regards the Scripture, and also the nature of belief. Indeed, the topic at hand is paradoxical in many respects, but I don't commend rstrats for being an unbeliever.
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

  10. #280
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    watchinginawe,
    re: " rstrats, like me, has been at this topic for many years now, maybe more than a decade."

    Actually, it's been more than 15 years.




    re: "Many many studied posts on the topic have been exchanged."

    And so far no one who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time has provided any examples which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.


    re: " Indeed, the topic at hand is paradoxical in many respects..."

    How so?

  11. #281
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    CadyandZoe,
    re: "Let me know what you think. Passion Week.pdf "


    It's a pretty good chart, but I'm afraid it doesn't deal with the issue with which I'm concerned.

  12. #282
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    fred06,
    re: "Sadly, one's explanation is 'thwart' at the moment..."

    I don't understand. What do you mean by that?

  13. #283
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    watchinginawe,
    re: "Three night times are involved when considering Jesus' betrayal and imprisonment."


    What is there in scripture that makes it necessary to think that the Messiah is including His night time in the garden as part of His 3 night stay in the "heart of the earth"?

  14. #284
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    CadyandZoe,
    re: "Let me know what you think. Passion Week.pdf "


    It's a pretty good chart, but I'm afraid it doesn't deal with the issue with which I'm concerned.
    I didn't make the chart to deal with your issue. If you can't find your answer there then I can't help you.

  15. #285
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    Re: Three Days and Three Nights

    CadyandZoe,
    re: "... I can't help you."

    That's ok; maybe someone new looking in will know of examples.

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