WSGAC, are you involved in a church?
Have you approached your Pastor with all your 'revelations' like you are presenting to folks here? Just wondering.........
<--Bluebird of Happiness
WSGAC, are you involved in a church?
Have you approached your Pastor with all your 'revelations' like you are presenting to folks here? Just wondering.........
My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)
Veteran
I can see you really aren't interested in discussing this. This post is on the Areopagus board, not Bible Chat or Evangelism. This is the board for discussing controversial subjects deemed unsuitable for the regular boards. I'm being respectful, and abiding the rules. You're being disrespectful. Maybe you should move on now?Originally Posted by Firefighter
Veteran
These are not revelations. This is honest inquiry into the text.
Awaiting for you to enlighten us with your interpretation...
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Veteran
I've already interpreted it (see original post). Actually, I just underscored Paul's argument. Apparently you must agree with my exposition of his argument, because you keep trying to change the subject.
<--Bluebird of Happiness
...so, you're not even involved in a church???
My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)
Sorry about that, you lost me at "I think universal salvation is a view that has merit."
Again... I have posted my thought on it, and you have avoided the mountain of scripture that refutes your interpretation. That can only lead one to believe one thing. You are not interested in studying scripture, but are only interested in advancing your VERY limited view of a particular scripture to the exclusion of all others.
Is the Bible true? All of it? Are there contradictions in the Bible?
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Veteran
You continue to try and force this thread into your particular "orthodoxy" box. The reason this thread exists in Areopagus is to get out of that box for a moment. I am no more interested in reconciling Romans 9-11 with your particular cited scriptures than I would be interested in reconciling Romans 9-11 with a pre-tribulation rapture set of scriptures.
In this post, I am interested in discussing and understanding Paul's argument as we find it in Romans 9-11, and then maybe how it fits with the rest of the letter. It sounds like Paul is making an argument for a universal salvation of Israel. If this is not his argument, please show me how it is not.
I live here!
Context does not just involve surrounding verses, but an analysis of all that a given author says on an issue. In this case, the issue is the nature and extent of salvation, and tangential arguments on the issue do not detract from the overall message that, as much as we might want it to be, salvation is not universal.
If you are not willing to look at Scripture as a whole, then there is no need to discuss the left third metatarsal knuckle with you.
"MISSION: To rescue Christians enslaved by manmade religion and to bring them to the freedom of Jesus."
Veteran
If you were a member of the Roman congregation to which Paul sent this letter, how would you understand Romans 9-11? Mind you, this would be prior to any canon of the New Testament.
I STILL would not think anything even close to universal salvation because of the verses I mentioned earlier from Romans 9-11
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Veteran
I gave a condition on that. I said universal salvation for Israel.
When Paul says, "All Israel will be saved" he means what?
Captain Obvious
I agree with your view (as explained here - not the universal salvation part) of Romans 9-11 - Paul seems to be arguing that, during one period of redemptive history in the future (directly related to the "fullness of the Gentiles"), an entire nation will, by grace, choose to embrace faith in Jesus as Messiah and God. They (Israel) will all be saved - and come into their fullness, which Paul argues will bless the whole earth in a manner that is far beyond their "failure" or rejection of Jesus as Messiah and God. There are distinctions grammatically in the text that preclude making "Israel" synonymous with "the church". So it's Israel (the nation) that Paul is talking about - and he seems to be fixing his view on one time frame in the future.
Now, how in the world could one imagine (or, to be kind, extrapolate), from this interpretation of the passage, that Paul is advocating universal salvation?
The Rookie
Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".
I live here!
It isn't rocket surgery.
All "Israel" is not those born of Israeli bloodline, but those that have faith, regardless of either bloodline or the law. Paul is pretty clear about that in Chapter 9.
The only ones who are saved are those who believe in Christ and confess him as Lord. Paul is pretty clear about that in Chapter 10.
Paul would cut off his arm if all of his kinsmen in the flesh would believe, but he acknowledges that they don't.
Whether dispensational theology is correct as to a future opportunity for all of Israel as a nation at a later time and place to accept Christ is an entirely different issue from universal salvation of all.
"MISSION: To rescue Christians enslaved by manmade religion and to bring them to the freedom of Jesus."
I live here!
Paul is crystal clear that "Israel" is those who believe, the children of the promise.
He makes that clear in Romans 9, which is supported by his entire treatise on faith in chapters 4-6.
"MISSION: To rescue Christians enslaved by manmade religion and to bring them to the freedom of Jesus."
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks