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Thread: Who are Gog and Magog?

  1. #1
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    Who are Gog and Magog?

    Hello all,

    I'd like some input as to who/what Gog and Magog are in Ezekiel. I know they are also mentioned in Revelation but my interest is in who they are from a non-Dispensational position.

    Some theories I have come across:

    1. Gog = Gyges of Lydia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyges_of_Lydia

    2. Gog is a prophecy that applies to all time and is about no person in particular.

    3. Gog = future prophecy

    I would like to read some books/articles/insightful posts about what you all think.

  2. #2

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    One view is that Gog and Magog may represent Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his oppression of Judea following the Jews' return from the Babylonian Exile. Hence why Ezekiel's prophecies contain a great number of references to the Babylonian Exile and Return, and the reconstitution of the nation of Judah/Judea following the Return. The Gog and Magog oppression and subsequent defeat appear in Ezekiel's prophecies after Judah's revival, as Antiochus IV Epiphanes' oppression and subsequent defeat took place a few centuries after Judah's revival.

  3. #3
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    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Mark, you got some sources you might recommend on Gog and Magog being AIVE? I'd love to study it out. Thanks buddy.
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  4. #4

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by decrumpit View Post
    Hello all,

    I'd like some input as to who/what Gog and Magog are in Ezekiel. I know they are also mentioned in Revelation but my interest is in who they are from a non-Dispensational position.

    Some theories I have come across:

    1. Gog = Gyges of Lydia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyges_of_Lydia

    2. Gog is a prophecy that applies to all time and is about no person in particular.

    3. Gog = future prophecy

    I would like to read some books/articles/insightful posts about what you all think.
    I would equate Gog with the future Antichrist. I believe that Ez 38-39 are yet to be fulfilled and when you read it I just see so many similiarites with Revelation. Few examples would be to compare:
    Ez 39:17-20 with Rev 19:17-18
    Ez 38:19-20 with Rev 16:18-21
    Ez 38:22 with Rev 16:21

    One last point I would like to mention and that is the person on the white horse in Revelation 6:2. This is not Christ but I believe to be the AntiChrist. Notice that this person has a "bow". Then when you read Ez 39:4 you see a bow being knocked out of Gog's hand.
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

  5. #5

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedee
    One last point I would like to mention and that is the person on the white horse in Revelation 6:2. This is not Christ but I believe to be the AntiChrist. Notice that this person has a "bow". Then when you read Ez 39:4 you see a bow being knocked out of Gog's hand.
    No offense... but this is a ridiculously weak point to base the view on. God has a bow in Genesis 6. The bow is his weapon in Habakkuk 3 (and several other passages of the OT). A bow surrounds his throne in Revelation 4. My point here is not that the rider of the white horse in Revelation 6 is not "the antichrist", simply that making the connection of the rider to Gog/Magog on the basis that both have a bow is just moot, worthless, insubstantial. It is not sound Scriptural interpretation to use such a minuscule, evidence-for-both-sides-can-be-easily-found point.

  6. #6

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    No offense... but this is a ridiculously weak point to base the view on. God has a bow in Genesis 6. The bow is his weapon in Habakkuk 3 (and several other passages of the OT). A bow surrounds his throne in Revelation 4. My point here is not that the rider of the white horse in Revelation 6 is not "the antichrist", simply that making the connection of the rider to Gog/Magog on the basis that both have a bow is just moot, worthless, insubstantial. It is not sound Scriptural interpretation to use such a minuscule, evidence-for-both-sides-can-be-easily-found point.
    You are comparing a bow and arrow with a rainbow in Revelation 4? Forreal? Where is the bow in Genesis 6? Where is the bow of weaponry in Habakkuk 3?

    We are talking about bow of weaponry,,,, you know a bow and arrow and not a rainbow.
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

  7. #7

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe
    Mark, you got some sources you might recommend on Gog and Magog being AIVE? I'd love to study it out. Thanks buddy.
    Unfortunately, I do not have any articles or sources memorized off-hand. A Google search comes up with a few websites you may be interested in (e.g. this one).

    I do, however, have my own notes on the subject. I read through the chapters leading up to and including the Gog/Magog ones in Ezekiel, presupposing that it would be about AIVE (for the sake of determining how well it comports to what Ezekiel predicts), and made notes on my thoughts. I'll type them up for you, but please understand that my by-hand note-taking is scant... I generally only need to write brief summaries of my thoughts, and the rest of it comes back to me. My original notes are in normal text, but present additions (if I feel it necessary to elaborate what I noted) will be in brackets.

    Each of these is a subsequent, individual prophecy. Each prophecy begins with "The word of Yahweh came to me".

    Ezekiel 33.23-33
    "Abraham had the Land. We should too!" You sinned and lost the Land.
    [That is, the Jews claimed their right to Land because they were descendants of Abraham. God, in response, told them they did not keep to the conditional Covenant, and hence, lost it.]

    Ezekiel 34
    The shepherds helped themselves, but not the sheep. The sheep were lost. God punishes the shepherds, but will rescue the sheep. God will find the sheep. He will return the people to their Land. God himself will be the shepherd. God will judge between fat and lean sheep. He will establish David over them. God will establish a covenant of peace. Beasts gone. Blessings in their season. God will be with his people. People dwelling in the Land?
    [A return from Exile is being seen. God punishes the (self-serving?) leaders of the community, and moves in their stead. Messianic promises follow.]

    Ezekiel 35.1-36.15
    God against Mt Seir (Edom). God will punish Edom, because they allowed Israel to be destroyed. Edom sought to take the Land. While the earth rejoices over the blessings of David, Edom will be waste.

    [Following, Ezekiel's prophetic utterances, essentially, start over. The topic in this next prophecy returns to Israel sinning and losing the Land (33.23-33) and returning to the Land (34). Meaning, Ezekiel 33 and onward is not strictly chronological, and does not mandate any sort of immediate sequence of fulfillment of prophecies B-Z once prophecy A begins.]

    Ezekiel 36.16-37.14
    Israel defiled the Land, as a woman in impurity (cycle). Israel scattered. God preserves his holy name. God will clean the people. A new heart, a new spirit. No more stone heart and [stone] spirit. Return to the Land. Seasonal abundance. People loathe of evil. Land restored, as Eden. Dry bones revived, covered in flesh. New spirits. [This paragraph has a bracket to the right, which points to the word "Deut."]

    Ezekiel 37.15-28
    God will rejoin Judah and Israel, return them to the Land. God will establish David over them. Everlasting covenant of peace. God dwells with his people. [This is a reiteration of Ezekiel 34, essentially.]

    Ezekiel 38-39
    Gog and Magog. Persia, Cush, Put, Gomer. (Daniel 11.43; 1 Macc. 3.31) From the north. Gog comes against restored Israel "in the latter years". (Dan. 8[.23]) Gog seeks to spoil. (Dan. 11.40 Come as a storm) The people quake at God's presence. God will bring the people against Gog. Gog will fail. God will keep Gog from profaning his name. Remnants of Gog's weapons burned. Gog buried east of the sea? Bury for seven months Gog's armies. The beasts and birds shall devour Gog's armies. God will restore Israel (some [had been sent] in[to] captivity: Dan 11.33), no more shame.

  8. #8

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedee
    You are comparing a bow and arrow with a rainbow in Revelation 4? Forreal?
    The point is... it's a bow.

    Where is the bow in Genesis 6?
    I apologize, I meant Genesis 9. The point is... it's a bow.

    Where is the bow of weaponry in Habakkuk 3?
    Habakkuk 3.9 (and following)
    ​​​​​​​You [God] stripped the sheath from your bow, calling for many arrows. Selah. You split the earth with rivers.

    We are talking about bow of weaponry,,,, you know a bow and arrow and not a rainbow.
    I understand the difference. Do not speak down to me with your spite. I'm raising an honest concern for your interpretive method. Where does Revelation 6 explicitly identify the "bow" as being a weapon? The word for "bow" (from rain) in Genesis 9 and Ezekiel 1 is the same word used for "bow" (the weapon) in Habakkuk 3; John could have been using "bow" in a different sense from that of the weapon. And even if he was meaning the weapon, there it is a terribly flawed reason to claim that, because the rider of the white horse has a bow as a weapon, and that Gog has a bow as a weapon, that they must be the same individual. It's a weak point, because even God is seen wielding a bow in Scripture, let alone in passages containing a great deal of symbolism. Or do you believe that there will be a literal series of four single individuals who will subsequently sit on a series of four differently-colored horses, each being given a literal bow and crown, and a sword, and a pair of scales, and that the fourth rider will be Death incarnate with the Grave incarnate following him? If you believe that these other three riders are symbolic, and that the things they carry are symbolic (I'm not saying you do, but to ask directly would be getting off the topic of this thread)... well, it would be very pick-and-choose to claim that the rider of the white horse must be a literal individual, and that he must be evil because he carries a bow, and using that as a substantial basis for your interpretation.

    All in all, my point is this: You cannot use "both Gog and the rider of the white horse are seen with a bow" as a real, true, substantial basis of Scriptural reasoning for the conclusion "Gog is the rider of the white horse". It just doesn't work, because many people have bows in Scripture, both good and bad, both symbolic and literal.

  9. #9
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    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedee View Post

    One last point I would like to mention and that is the person on the white horse in Revelation 6:2. This is not Christ but I believe to be the AntiChrist. Notice that this person has a "bow". Then when you read Ez 39:4 you see a bow being knocked out of Gog's hand.


    Personally I have never made this connection, the bow in Revelation 6:2, with that of the bow in Ez 39:4. So I decided to take a closer look then. It appears to me the contexts are different. The rider on the white horse is depicted as conquering. Gog in Ez 38 is depicted as the opposite. He's not seen conquering anyone. So I would say the two are unrelated, in my opinion. But I still believe EZ 38 and EZ 39 are yet to be fulfilled tho. So at least we agree there.

  10. #10
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    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by decrumpit View Post
    Hello all,

    I'd like some input as to who/what Gog and Magog are in Ezekiel. I know they are also mentioned in Revelation but my interest is in who they are from a non-Dispensational position.

    Some theories I have come across:

    1. Gog = Gyges of Lydia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyges_of_Lydia

    2. Gog is a prophecy that applies to all time and is about no person in particular.

    3. Gog = future prophecy

    I would like to read some books/articles/insightful posts about what you all think.
    I believe Gog represents the northern quarter of earth from an Israel perspective. The prophecies about Gog in Ezekiel 38/39 and Rev 20 I believe are predicting the future.

    In Ezekiel 38.39 it is specifically referring to an alliance with Turkey at the forefront with some southern Russia and Middle Eastern allies.

    In Rev 20 it is referring to one of the four regions of earth, the northern quarter.

    I personally believe an in depth study reveals this Turkish alliance of Ezekiel 38/39 to be an enemy of the antichrist who is Israel-based.

  11. #11

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Personally I have never made this connection, the bow in Revelation 6:2, with that of the bow in Ez 39:4. So I decided to take a closer look then. It appears to me the contexts are different. The rider on the white horse is depicted as conquering. Gog in Ez 38 is depicted as the opposite. He's not seen conquering anyone. So I would say the two are unrelated, in my opinion. But I still believe EZ 38 and EZ 39 are yet to be fulfilled tho. So at least we agree there.
    Totally fine. Honestly I only have came to this thinking about a year or so ago.
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

  12. #12

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    The point is... it's a bow.
    Don't see your point in comparing a rainbow to a bow and arrow.

    I apologize, I meant Genesis 9. The point is... it's a bow.
    Again, you confuse a rainbow to a bow "weapon of war".

    I understand the difference. Do not speak down to me with your spite.
    If you do understand than you shouldn't compare a rainbow to a bow(weaponry).

    Where does Revelation 6 explicitly identify the "bow" as being a weapon?
    "And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." - Rev 2:6

    The bow is a weapon of war. Here he is seen going out "conquering and to conquer". Can you conquer with a rainbow?

    there it is a terribly flawed reason to claim that, because the rider of the white horse has a bow as a weapon, and that Gog has a bow as a weapon, that they must be the same individual. It's a weak point,
    What amazes me is that I said there are a good number of similarities between Ez 38 and 39 with that of Revelation and you pick out one of them that I listed an act like that is the only element that I am using to link the two together.

    It just doesn't work, because many people have bows in Scripture, both good and bad, both symbolic and literal.
    Context will help you decipher between a rainbow and a bow(weaponry).
    BelieversNotes.com - Bible Study Notes

    For it is better that he say to you, 'Come up here,' Than that you should be put lower in the presence of the prince, Whom your eyes have seen. ~ Proverbs 25:7

  13. #13
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    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    From Craig R. Koester's Revelation and the End of All Things (a commentary the Bible study I'm in is going through): "The visions of the four horsemen have captured the imaginations of people for centuries, but certain aspects of the imagery would have been most apparent to people in the seven churches addressed by Revelation. The first horseman, who is armed with a bow, was an apt figure to represent conquest since horses were commonly used in warfare, and various armies had bowmen, some of whom belonged to the calvary (Judith 2:15). The most famous mounted bowmen of John's time, however, came from Parthia, the region that lay beyond the Roman Empire's eastern frontier. The Parthian forces, which featured mounted archers, repeatedly drove back the Roman army in 53 B.C., 36 B.C., and A.D. 62, bringing Roman imperial expansion to a halt. The Parthians were a nagging reminder about the limits of the security that Rome - the region's most powerful empire - could provide. The implication was that the Christians who partook of the sacrifices offered to the deified emperors and other Roman gods (Rev. 2:14, 20) were compromising their convictions to placate powers that were not supreme, but vulnerable to invasion by outside forces. Those who were sure that they needed nothing more than the prosperity provided by the empire (3:17) were deluding themselves." (83-84)

    I've never heard of this suggested before, but I thought it was incredibly helpful, in that Koester seeks to understand the vision in the way that the recipients to the letter might have understood it by looking at contemporary news-worthy happenings not normally known by the lay-people of today (and therefore not considered by them). What'da'ya think?
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  14. #14

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    I think Markedward gave a very good reply in post #2. So as much as it is noted in the book of Revelation I tend to view it as John describing a nothern kingdom coming and invading Israel, just as it did for Ezekiel and Ezekiel would have described them (Antiochus IV Epiphanes)coming from the northern most parts. The land northen in the upper most parts where named Magog.

    Both Ezekiel and John usages of relating to the northern kingdom as Magog and Gog is only representing a nothern kingdom that would come and invade Israel. For Ezekiel it was the Seleucid Empire from the north of Israel and for John is was the Roman Empire considering both would defile the temple as spoken by Jesus (Matthew 24:15)

  15. #15

    Re: Who are Gog and Magog?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Personally I have never made this connection, the bow in Revelation 6:2, with that of the bow in Ez 39:4. So I decided to take a closer look then. It appears to me the contexts are different. The rider on the white horse is depicted as conquering. Gog in Ez 38 is depicted as the opposite. He's not seen conquering anyone. So I would say the two are unrelated, in my opinion. But I still believe EZ 38 and EZ 39 are yet to be fulfilled tho. So at least we agree there.
    David, I personally beleive the imagery of the white horse and him that sat upon is given a bow to conquering and the fact he is given a crown depicted more of our Lord Jesus instead of any other. So I would see no connection with Rev.6.2, with Eze.39:4 other than using the bow description. With in Revelation it is given also that Christ Jesus uses a sword that comes out of his mouth to conquer.(Rev.19:14-15).

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