Gospel... moved from the law and eternal life thread

[dagar]

Uh... sure it was what they were talking about. They believed... but Jesus didn't commit Himself to them because He knew their heart. They believed He was the Messiah. Wasn't enough. Same with those later... but Jesus pushed them even further than they wanted to go. You can go on about "not at all what they were talking about" but it sure enough was!

Doesn't say they didn't believe it says they did. That's all. Stop reading your theology into it.
James 2 says demons believe there is one God. Not related to what you are talking about.

As to faith being faith... uh... no. There is weak faith, little faith, faith to move mountains, faith the size of a grain of mustart seed, faith that cause Jesus to marvel, faith that caused Jesus to weep. So read your Bible closer... there are many kinds of faith. Even dead faith.

Funny. There's weak and little faith, but faith of a mustard seed moves mountains . Faith is faith. The question is the heart, ground. There are four types of ground/ one faith. So read your bible closer.

[ProjectPeter]

Doesn't say they didn't believe it says they did. That's all. Stop reading your theology into it.

You sure are cocky ain't ya! Read what I said Hoss. My point is that they DID believe but that wasn't a belief that was going to save them. You're the one not reading.

Funny. There's weak and little faith, but faith of a mustard seed moves mountains. Faith is faith.

No... Peter's "little faith" wasn't faith enough to keep him out of the water. The disciples little faith couldn't cast the demon out of a boy. The Centurions great faith got his servant healed miles away. Etc. Faith is not simply faith at all. Again... read a bit. Scripture speaks of all the various sorts of faith... even dead faith.

The question is the heart, ground. There are four types of ground/ one faith. So read you bible closer

The heart is another different subject matter... gotta deal with the basics before you can play that card... your basics are messed up.

[dagar]

You say the heart is a different subject mattter but tell me Jesus "knew their heart". You're not reading

You don't understand what little and great faith means. There's not different types of faith, just different ground and different circumstance. Dead faith is no faith at all, not dead faith. It's very simple. Like what the gospel is, you are making what faith is complicated.

[ProjectPeter]

You say the heart is a different subject mattter but tell me Jesus "knew their heart". You're not reading

You don't understand what little and great faith means. There's not different types of faith, just different ground and different circumstance. Dead faith is no faith at all, not dead faith. It's very simple. Like what the gospel is, you are making what faith is complicated.

Yeah... been preaching for over 30 years and have literally many 1000's of hours studying as well as several degrees, been the leader on this board for a number of years and still haven't figured all that out. One day though... maybe I'll get it eh?

And no... not making faith complicated. Making it biblical. Faith is not just simply faith. If faith was faith then it would simply be faith. No little faith, dead faith, strong faith, etc.

The ground is the ground. Has nothing to do with faith. The heart is the heart and one can have a very good heart and still have little faith. One can have faith that can move mountains but no love ... that whole 1 Corinthian 13 thing... remember?

I wait for your next retort with eager anticipation.

[dagar]

Yeah... been preaching for over 30 years and have literally many 1000's of hours studying as well as several degrees, been the leader on this board for a number of years and still haven't figured all that out. One day though... maybe I'll get it eh?

I pray so friend. This card you played here, is the card of defeat. See you next time

[ProjectPeter]

Notice you didn't respond to the meat of the post. But hey... gotta love Internet debate tactics!

[dagar]

Where's the meat?
Yeah, it's so like me to avoid debate
gotta love those internet debate tactics

[ProjectPeter]

Where's the meat?
Yeah, it's so like me to avoid debate
gotta love those internet debate tactics

Well since it was an accident then let me repost it for you so it's easy to find.

And no... not making faith complicated. Making it biblical. Faith is not just simply faith. If faith was faith then it would simply be faith. No little faith, dead faith, strong faith, etc.

The ground is the ground. Has nothing to do with faith. The heart is the heart and one can have a very good heart and still have little faith. One can have faith that can move mountains but no love ... that whole 1 Corinthian 13 thing... remember?

[ProDeo]

Time to unsubscribe this thread

[ProjectPeter]

You won't... you can't help it. The moth and lamp thing! Or maybe... rubbernecking at a wreck on a highway. Either way!

[ProDeo]

You got me

[dagar]

Well since it was an accident then let me repost it for you so it's easy to find.

I saw it but do not see any meat. In fact, I don't even see colostrum.

Faith is not just simply faith. If faith was faith then it would simply be faith.

It is.

No little faith, dead faith, strong faith, etc.

These are either faith or unbelief.

The ground is the ground. Has nothing to do with faith.

Jesus said it did. They believed but He knew their heart. He also gave us a parable about four types of ground and the faith of two, showing why one failed. He did not say they had different levels of faith. When they failed it was because of their heart, not their faith.

The heart is the heart and one can have a very good heart and still have little faith.

When you establish faith is a thing that it can be little and accomplish nothing....stop. Why didn't it accomplish little? Jesus said faith of a mustard seed (the littlest) can move a mountain. But you just pointed out that little faith accomplishes nothing. Explain this contradiction scripturally then you can say "The heart is the heart and one can have a very good heart and still have little faith". Until then you are as wrong as you can possible be. The problem is not a very good heart not having faith. The problem is saying a heart can have varying degrees of faith. Faith/unbelief is all scripture talks about.

One can have faith that can move mountains but no love ... that whole 1 Corinthian 13 thing... remember?

Yes, and this is not a degree of faith.

Faith is not a thing that it may live, die, or function in differenct degrees. It is an abilility all are born with and excersise, and fail to excersis at times, daily.

[ProjectPeter]

I saw it but do not see any meat. In fact, I don't even see colostrum.

Lot of folk can't see. It happens.

It is.

These are either faith or unbelief.

Well no... more complicated than even that really. But if you can't see thusfar I'm dang sure you'd not see further!

Jesus said it did. They believed but He knew their heart. He also gave us a parable about four types of ground and the faith of two, showing why one failed. He did not say they had different levels of faith. When they failed it was because of their heart, not their faith.

That parable isn't the context of the passages in John. I know you really want to keep running back to this but it just runs into that whole context issue.

When you establish faith is a thing that it can be little and accomplish nothing....stop. Why didn't it accomplish little? Jesus said faith of a mustard seed (the littlest) can move a mountain. But you just pointed out that little faith accomplishes nothing.

Uh... little faith sunk instead of continued on the water. Again... context is a bear! Little faith couldn't cast out a demon... little faith was rather problematic and not mountain moving. Again... context makes a world of difference and you're running all over the place thus lacking context.

Explain this contradiction scripturally then you can say "The heart is the heart and one can have a very good heart and still have little faith". Until then you are as wrong as you can possible be.

Did that already... if you can see.

The problem is not a very good heart not having faith. The problem is saying a heart can have varying degrees of faith. Faith/unbelief is all scripture talks about.

Yes, and this is not a degree of faith.

Faith is not a thing that it may live, die, or function in differenct degrees. It is an abilility all are born with and excersise, and fail to excersis at times, daily.

One can have faith to move mountains (context ain't talking wee faith there) and yet without love... means nothing. And yes... faith can live and die... if that wasn't the case then there would be no need to increase our faith. Not to mention the many warnings and many exhortations to continue steadfast in faith.

[dagar]

That parable isn't the context of the passages in John. I know you really want to keep running back to this but it just runs into that whole context issue.

Context? How's that?

Uh... little faith sunk instead of continued on the water.

Uh... little faith was defined by Jesus as unbelief. That's why he sunk according to Jesus

Again... context is a bear!

Context? How's that?

Little faith couldn't cast out a demon...

Right. "Unbelief". That's -quote- exactly what Jesus said there. Not little faith, faith, great faith. No faith was the reason.

Again... context makes a world of difference and you're running all over the place thus lacking context.

talk about all over the place.

PP- "little faith, dead faith, strong faith, etc."

One can have faith to move mountains (context ain't talking wee faith there) and yet without love... means nothing.

It says 'I am nothing', not 'means nothing'. The faith moved the mountain, that's something. Without love, there is no reward -I am nothing.

And yes... faith can live and die... if that wasn't the case then there would be no need to increase our faith.

help our unbelief? How does this hint of a level of faith? Again, Jesus answered with "If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed". That is, if you have faith.

Not to mention the many warnings and many exhortations to continue steadfast in faith.

How's there different degrees in that?

[ProjectPeter]

Context? How's that?

Pretty simple really. John 2 isn't speaking of the parable of the various types of soil. Neither was chapter 5. John didn't even mention it actually. Trying to bring that into the context of those passage don't work well. Passage says they believed. Now... that's what it says. You can try and make that into some sort of really freaky unbelief I guess but thing is... you're just making it up.

John 2:23 *¶Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, beholding His signs which He was doing.
24 *But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men,
25 *and because He did not need anyone to bear witness concerning man for He Himself knew what was in man.


As to the rest... Like the Rookie said... going in the proverbial circle a wee bit too long. Not talking faith to do miracles anyway but faith that saves folk.